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  • I no speak no english!

    'Not being to communicative effectively in English'

    If you are a pharmacist from abroad and your english is not too good, is that a good enough reason for you to to never answer the phone, even when its been ringing for ages and all other staff are busy or occupied?

    If you are a pharmacist from abroad and your english is not too good, is that a good enough reason to always ask your staff to deal with any issues involving customers in person?

    If your answer is yes then why was I marked down on my last pre-reg for not being to communicate effectively in English even though English is practically my first language, ive given good presentations to heads of departments at university and obtained 70%+ on my final written dissertation?


    Ive also another issue (one of many) but the last LLoyds I worked for I worked fulltime, in the afternoon i use to take 10 minutes tea break in the afternoon (just one break per day as well as my 1 hour lunch break). Now it was fine the first few days but then the pharmacist started getting 'worked up' about me taking these breaks, so whenever id go up and made my tea he'd call me back down saying its busy can you help out, (bear in mind that in most cases it really wasnt that busy). So i thought let me clear things up, I call the area manager and was told i am not entitled any breaks and if i did want a tea break id have to shorten my lunch break by 10 minutes. This is did with no probs and I carried on like this.

    But now ive changed workplaces but still the same company. What ive found is that all the staff there smoke, and they all (normally together) go outside for their 'fag break' for upto five minutes at a time sometimes once in the morning sometimes more. but they still have their normal lunch breaks. So is it just me or is that a contradiction to what ive been told.
    Dont get me wrong i have nothing personal against them going for their fag breaks, in fact i coudnt care less, but the point is why is it wrong when i do it, but everyone else seems to get away with it.
    Last edited by rafhelp; 28, January 2009, 03:12 PM.
    ECDR.UK

  • #2
    Re: I no speak no english!

    i was advised by a locum during my summer placement ' just because they act irresponsibly does not mean you have to act like them, you are going to become a pharmacist while they are always going to remain cheap dispensers ( i know it is rude but i am quoting him).

    do you really think you were not signed off because of your English language? i think you did not get along with the pharmacist, complaining about your tutor will not help you as well!

    have you read others comments about pre-reg year on this forum? even admin herself had a horrible experience and her tutor did not let her go for her graduation ceremony! it is a matter of chance to be lucky and have a nice tutor, or a rude one who wants any excuse not to sign you off! some have been treated like slaves, yet they got over it managed to be signed off and practicing now.

    others did not want to suck up for the tutor and moved to another pharmacy. read happy bunny's posts, she moved to another pharmacy during her pre-reg year and sat for november exam.
    Last edited by Rafael; 28, January 2009, 09:48 PM.
    [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
    [/COLOR]

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    • #3
      Re: I no speak no english!

      check today's daily mail
      The schools where NO pupils speak English as a first language


      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1130077/The-schools-NO-pupils-speak-English-language.html

      the day might come when a 'foreigner', like myself, speaks better English than some Brits attending the mentioned schools :P
      [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
      [/COLOR]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I no speak no english!

        Originally posted by rafhelp View Post
        Dont get me wrong i have nothing personal against them going for their fag breaks, in fact i coudnt care less, but the point is why is it wrong when i do it, but everyone else seems to get away with it.
        if its between their regular manager and another pharmacist, perhaps even a locum, of course they are going to side with their regular manager. They can't really afford to lose them, imho.
        ....just my opinion

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I no speak no english!

          Originally posted by Raoul View Post
          i was advised by a locum during my summer placement ' just because they act irresponsibly does not mean you have to act like them, you are going to become a pharmacist when they are always going to remain cheap dispensers ( i know it is rude but i am quoting him).

          do you really think you were not signed off because of your English language? i think you did not get along with the pharmacist, complaining about your tutor will not help you as well!

          have you read others comments about pre-reg year in this forum? even admin herself had a horrible experience and her tutor did not let her go for her graduation ceremony! it is a matter of chance to be lucky and have a nice tutor, or a rude one who wants any excuse not to sign you off! some have been treated like slaves, yet they got over it managed to be signed off and practicing now.

          others did not want to suck up for the tutor and moved to another pharmacy. read happy bunny's posts, she moved to another pharmacy during her pre-reg year and sat for november exam.

          dont get me wrong i have nothing against 'foreigners' i myself am of an ethnic minority, the point is you cant use that as a cop out so that 'others' have to deal with it.

          oh and yes i did not get along with the tutor, and it was prob due to personal reasons i was not signed off. But its not just a question of sucking up, i did suck up and was polite and did as i was told like a good little pre-reg and actually completed all the competencies but maybe i did not suck up enough or did something to personally upset her, maybe they should rename pre-reg training to 'lick my backside for a year or else you are incompetent training' or 'do as I say or else training' .

          Im not being too harsh if something is done right it is right, but with some tutors if its not done exactly how they want it to be done then its wrong. The funny thing is they not even paying you for your work, they are getting paid by the society who also lay out the competencies and tell you and the tutor what you have to do to be 'classed as competent' so if you do right by the society's guidelines and the tutor still doesnt sign you off cos they got some complexes or personal issues with you or the way you work then sorry it doesnt matter who they are they should be disciplined and put straight by the society or other regulating body as not only are they being unprofessional by letting their personal feelings affect their professional judgement but also breaching their contract with the society which they signed before taking on the pre-reg.

          I had a raw deal but i just hope that any other pre-regs out there in awkward positions or working for ****'s do something about it and not let that tutor come in the way of them qualifying or moving on as best as they should. Let them know that no, just cos your university put you in that bad placement you dont have to stay there (unlike as I was told by my placement tutor) if you dont like it or have problems. If you can prove your competence by having a good set of evidence log sheets for every competency and your tutor doesnt sign you off you should know that you can appeal against it. Let them also know that they shouldnt let their tutor make them feel like worthless crap or that they dont know anything, come on you spent your whole life in fulltime education and in some cases you may even have a better degree than the tutor so if they are its prob because you make them feel insecure, or they have some superiority complex or personal issues they feel they can take out on you.

          Also dont forget (im not a stereotypical) some pre-reg's do require the tutor to be firm with them in order for them to sort themsleves out or to do the work set for them or to simply get out of the 'student' mindset.


          So you are right you will be lucky if you find a tutor you can get along with and will be ok with.
          ECDR.UK

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I no speak no english!

            Originally posted by rafhelp View Post
            'Not being to communicative effectively in English'

            If you are a pharmacist from abroad and your english is not too good, is that a good enough reason for you to to never answer the phone, even when its been ringing for ages and all other staff are busy or occupied?
            NO!
            If you are a pharmacist from abroad and your english is not too good, is that a good enough reason to always ask your staff to deal with any issues involving customers in person?
            NO!
            If your answer is yes then why was I marked down on my last pre-reg for not being to communicate effectively in English even though English is practically my first language, ive given good presentations to heads of departments at university and obtained 70%+ on my final written dissertation?

            I really doubt that was the reason for you being not signed off as 'competent' But all the above are not related with your 'failure( no offense meant) to get registered! i am not trying to sound harsh, but do not blame them for your own failure.....

            yes i agree it is not fair! you do have the right to feel discriminated against, but if you have a problem, contact your local MP and tell him the EU laws are not fair. the only fair system would be having ONE LAW FOR ALL, where a UK GRADUATE, FOREIGN GRADUATE and EU GRADUATE have to prove being competent and could communicate in English effectively before registering. at the moment this rule is only followed for foreign pharmacists, and i can not explain as i am a UK graduate ) but a foreigner i.e international student graduating from a UK university). Paul could help us here regarding the rules
            [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
            [/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I no speak no english!

              Originally posted by rafhelp View Post
              dont get me wrong i have nothing against 'foreigners' i myself am of an ethnic minority, the point is you cant use that as a cop out so that 'others' have to deal with it.
              i did not imply that
              oh and yes i did not get along with the tutor, and it was prob due to personal reasons i was not signed off.
              i am sure that was the case as most of the pharmacists i met are quite tolerant

              The funny thing is they not even paying you for your work, they are getting paid by the society who also lay out the competencies and tell you and the tutor what you have to do to be 'classed as competent' so if you do right by the society's guidelines and the tutor still doesnt sign you off cos they got some complexes or personal issues with you or the way you work then sorry it doesnt matter who they are they should be disciplined and put straight by the society or other regulating body as not only are they being unprofessional by letting their personal feelings affect their professional judgement but also breaching their contract with the society which they signed before taking on the pre-reg.
              i believe a society rep comes to visit the pharmacy and talk with the pre-reg, did you raise up the topic with him/her? if no, how could they do something about your situation?

              I had a raw deal but i just hope that any other pre-regs out there in awkward positions or working for ****'s do something about it and not let that tutor come in the way of them qualifying or moving on as best as they should.
              i totally agree
              Let them know that no, just cos your university put you in that bad placement you dont have to stay there (unlike as I was told by my placement tutor) if you dont like it or have problems.

              i am missing something here, the university has nothing to do with you applying for pre-reg placements, and accepting an offer, please correct me if i am wrong, as my university did not get involved.


              If you can prove your competence by having a good set of evidence log sheets for every competency and your tutor doesnt sign you off you should know that you can appeal against it. Let them also know that they shouldnt let their tutor make them feel like worthless crap or that they dont know anything, come on you spent your whole life in fulltime education and in some cases you may even have a better degree than the tutor so if they are its prob because you make them feel insecure, or they have some superiority complex or personal issues they feel they can take out on you.
              i totally agree
              Also dont forget (im not a stereotypical) some pre-reg's do require the tutor to be firm with them in order for them to sort themsleves out or to do the work set for them or to simply get out of the 'student' mindset.

              true, but that does not mean the tutor is obligated to be firm with
              them! you are there to get the best out of it, you decide the direction of your imporvement and what you want to achieve during your pre-reg year. having said that, i believe the tutor should allow you all chances to be creative, innovative and to imrpove yourself.


              So you are right you will be lucky if you find a tutor you can get along with and will be ok with.
              some people are lucky others are not! i would have been lucky if i was born here and pay the same tuition fees as any EU student, however i was not..... I took a huge loan, paying 11K/year for tuition fees, and will be paying all the money back within a period of 3 years post-registration, but i got over it! am i firghtened? yes i am.....


              sorry if i sounded offensive, and i wish you the best of luck.
              Regards
              Last edited by Rafael; 25, September 2009, 08:07 AM.
              [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
              [/COLOR]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I no speak no english!

                The USA was a melting pot for many different peoples all speaking different languages. To ensure integration they insisted on two things.

                English (ie american) was to be the only language used in schools - no interpreters, no foreign language leaflets etc. Pupils learnt the language very fast.
                All children to honour the US flag each day at assembly. No waving of say, Israeli or palestininan flags.

                Pehaps we could learn from US experience.
                johnep

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I no speak no english!

                  I think perhaps flag waving might not go down too well in Wales, Scotland, and NI :-) :-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I no speak no english!

                    I don't think anyone can say that Rafhelp cannot communicate in English.

                    Really, I think that what comes out of this for me is that there needs to be a robust appeals system so that such refusals can be adjudicated.

                    After all, checking that someone can communicate in English would be pretty easy, and would only require a short interview at, say, an accredited school of pharmacy, or the rspcp (sorry, rbsgb), or perhaps being signed off by an accredited language school.

                    I'm a third generation immigrant, myself, and despite my avatar, not from Italy, but from Eastern Europe. I think that all immigrants' language, spelling and style would improve by reading books in English, and lots of them. Find a library, and read books about subjects you are interested in, and books with lots of dialogue in. But english books.

                    I think many stick to reading and listening material in their first language, which does not help in their careers in thiis country.
                    ....just my opinion

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                    • #11
                      Re: I no speak no english!

                      ---------------
                      Last edited by Rafael; 25, September 2009, 08:05 AM.
                      [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                      [/COLOR]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I no speak no english!

                        Originally posted by DavidS View Post
                        I think that all immigrants' language, spelling and style would improve by reading books in English, and lots of them. Find a library, and read books about subjects you are interested in, and books with lots of dialogue in. But english books.
                        Trust me there are loads of English( white English) who do not know how to spell or write! i am sure you encountered some while locuming at different pharmacies the society is broken, education is a current problem, the public are becoming lazier with time( thanks to the labour FREE-BENEFITS-FOR-ALL party that kept 10000s at home rather than at work).

                        to edit my earlier post; the problem comes from immigrants not willing to integrate, and lazy Brits who want it all for free.
                        [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                        [/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I no speak no english!

                          there are loads of English( white English) who do not know how to spell or write! i am sure you encountered some while locuming at different pharmacies
                          yes, but not amongst the staff, and certainly not the pharmacists, and that's what I want to bring out.
                          ....just my opinion

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                          • #14
                            Re: I no speak no english!

                            True i understand your point
                            [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                            [/COLOR]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I no speak no english!

                              All summed up by 'when in Rome, do as the romans do'.
                              Trevor Phillips has stated that doctrine of multiculturalism has lead to strife rather than peace.

                              I remember being horrified by the intrusive photo flashing by tourists in Thailand temples during services.
                              johnep

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