Failing Pre-reg year

[parent of pre-reg student]

Is it usual for the pre-reg tutor to be thinking of failing the pre-reg student at this stage just 7 wks into the pre-reg year?

[alex]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

I know some tutors can use that as a tactic to try and "get more" out of their pre-reg's. I'm sure that at the 13wk stage the tutor wouldn't be dreaming of failing them really, especially as it's their first year as a tutor. If things don't pick up, give the listening friends line a ring, i'm not sure of the number but it was put in the reply to one of your other threads and it'll be on the societys web page.

[Pharmanaut]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

I know some tutors can use that as a tactic to try and "get more" out of their pre-reg's. I'm sure that at the 13wk stage the tutor wouldn't be dreaming of failing them really, especially as it's their first year as a tutor. If things don't pick up, give the listening friends line a ring, i'm not sure of the number but it was put in the reply to one of your other threads and it'll be on the societys web page.

There are two sides to every story but a tutors job is to mentor the pre-reg to encourage and nuture them on the first stages of professional life. Some checks and balances need to be put into operation fairly soon. What we want at the end of the process is a competent pharmacist - not a bag of nerves. How about pre-reg requesting an off-site talk with tutor to get things back on track? Is there a senior tutor who looks after the tutors in that area?

Calculations should come with practice. Some people can do them in their head, some like to do them on paper, starting from first principles. Most of us are in between. Its the right answer that matters when its someones life.

How about pharmaceutical calculations and the companion workbook by Rees, Smith and Smith. Published by the pharmaceutical press.
If you drop me a private email you can lend my copies, as long as you do the workbook stuff on scrap paper!

[Chosen1]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

In reply to the original posting. It's highly unusual for a pre-reg tutor to be thinking of failing a student so early, usually most companies will let you know how you progress and allow you to amend your behaviour in order to become competent. With regards to evidence, I personally think it is a load of red-tape and just wastes valuable time which could be spent on more useful learning (e.g. sales of medicines, BNF, etc). Ask your daughter to agree with her tutor as to what evidence and how much is required. Some tutors make you collect lots whilst others look for about 60 good pieces in total!

Most pre-reg students will be in the same position right now in terms of evidence and progress, unless they really have been seriously organised and have a really good tutor.

Not having a good knowledge of OTC medicines and not being great at calculations does not make her incompetent. She'll have some basic knowledge of both from her pharmacy course, all she needs to do is build up on it during the coming months. My advice would be to practice calculations at least once a month and complete a Sales of Medicine Accredited course (her company will offer this if she is with Alliance Boots, Lloyds, etc; if she's with an indepedent firm then Buttercups and other companies have such courses). There are also some good books out there for both areas (Symptoms in the Pharmacy; Introduction to Pharmaceutical Calculations).

Getting a 2:1 is good and shows your daughter is very capable; but she now needs to apply the knowledge she has gained as that is what this year is about.

The RPSGB keeps a check on tutors, and tutors have a learning contract which they signed to say that they will support the trainee, etc. If this agreement is not being fulfilled by a tutor, than the Society can act.

The 13wk review is more a progress check and it is unlikely that any good company would let a pharmacy graduate go at this stage without giving them prior warning to amend their behaviour. It is more likely that the 26wk review is where those who have failed to progress as planned will be asked to leave.

Pre-reg can be exhausting, ask your daughter to speak to her tutor and see if she can spread the working hours out over the week and finish some days a little earlier to give her enough relaxation/social/learning time. Is your daughter utilising her 1hr study time effectively? Long hours can be a part of any job and that criteria alone does not necessarily make pharmacy a hard job. What I have noted though is community pharmacy is in some cases fast paced as opposed to say hospital. Perhaps hospital pharmacy will suit your daughter better (as it has less time pressure constraints with regards to for example dispensing or patient interaction).

You're right, this is meant to be like a vocational year and so I'd advise (without knowing too much about the nature of the problem) that if this is concerning you or your daughter, sit down with the tutor and see how you can help each other make the best of the situation. At worst you can request to be moved to another store and at best you will know where your daughter stands with respect to her training needs.

On a positive note, I would not worry too much, I am sure that your daughter will pick up stuff as the year progresses and will be as good a pharmacist as any.

[Smithy]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

having been a pre-reg tutor in the past I consider it a reflection on the tutor to be threatening failure at such an early stage. its not an easy task to fulfill but, from what i heard from my students, too many tutors are not bothered about their students (could this be because students have been forced upon them from higher up?)
a lot of the problem is the society demanding ever more bumpf -- most pharmacies do not have the situations cropping up to complete the areas of competence and this causes students a lot of angst.
dont want to go back to my "pre-reg" year when my boss just sent the psgb a post card saying i was a damned nice chap etc but its all got a bit silly now.
the cynical bit of me wonders if its all to geep an army of pen pushers going at lambeth??????????!!

[richtagg]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

They certainly charge for all that bumpf too!
£230 to get your box of bumpf
£270 to sit your exam
Then £206 to register for the remainder of the year.

[pharmacyadvisor]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

Keep on trying!

[Pharmanaut]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

having been a pre-reg tutor in the past I consider it a reflection on the tutor to be threatening failure at such an early stage. its not an easy task to fulfill but, from what i heard from my students, too many tutors are not bothered about their students (could this be because students have been forced upon them from higher up?)
a lot of the problem is the society demanding ever more bumpf -- most pharmacies do not have the situations cropping up to complete the areas of competence and this causes students a lot of angst.
dont want to go back to my "pre-reg" year when my boss just sent the psgb a post card saying i was a damned nice chap etc but its all got a bit silly now.
the cynical bit of me wonders if its all to geep an army of pen pushers going at lambeth??????????!!

...it seems to be all about 'ticking boxes' these days.

[ramroum]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

Has your daughter have her 13 weeks appraisal? what has her tutor told her? what did she get for: my trainee is making good, satisfactory....etc progress??

[parent of pre-reg student]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

She was allowed 4 competencies - she was even failed for not communicating in clear English. Her uni mates got between 10 and 40 competencies depending upon where they work - so she's doing much worse than they are, yet they all got the same degree and she has been asked to do so much more than they have when they have all compared notes. It seems so unfair and random - her tutor does not approve of her personality - I don't think it's about Pharmacy at all but other issues - but she has all the power! Still, she has drawn up an action plan to move to the 26 week review - she ticked "some progress" rather than none, but "satisfactory" would have felt so much safer - I still feel she is being kept on a knife edge - how can she grow in confidence or competence with this level of micro management and constant disapproval? I think the whole year is going to be awful, and we'll be waiting in dread for the 26 week review - will the axe fall then? Can we do anything? Things feel quite hopeless/pointless - what a frightful trudge!

[ramroum]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

I think many of the pre-reg at hospitals are signed off for about

[johnep]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

A male pharmacist would be more sympathetic.
johnep

[ramroum]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

True unfortunately.

[Pharmanaut]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

True, women are mean to other female students usually unfortunately.

A bit of a generalisation there, but I'm wondering if the tutor feels 'threatened' in some peculiar way by a bright young pre-reg?

[Jeff]

Re: Failing Pre-reg year

she was even failed for not communicating in clear English.

My experience of pre-reg students is limited to locumming with them, however I'd fail most on their ability to communicate for maybe the first 6 months.
There's too much new stuff going on for them to be confident enough to communicate well.

Her uni mates got between 10 and 40 competencies depending upon where they work - so she's doing much worse than they are, yet they all got the same degree and she has been asked to do so much more than they have when they have all compared notes.

Perhaps a difference between a structured approach to tutoring and an unstructured approach. (and I'm not stating a preference)

It seems so unfair and random

Life is.

- her tutor does not approve of her personality - I don't think it's about Pharmacy at all but other issues - but she has all the power!

The number of times I've heard my children say something similar about their teachers (gdrvvf).
Shy and polite doesn't cut it in community pharmacy - the reasons a customer will choose you rather than the next pharmacist - is down to the impression that you make with them.

Still, she has drawn up an action plan to move to the 26 week review - she ticked "some progress" rather than none, but "satisfactory" would have felt so much safer - I still feel she is being kept on a knife edge - how can she grow in confidence or competence with this level of micro management and constant disapproval?

So whose school report described them as

Q1 ..... 'idle' and 'inattentive'.?

Q2 “cannot be trusted to behave himself anywhere”, and that he was “so regular in his irregularity that I really don’t know what to do”.

Q3“He is rebellious, objectionable, idle, imbecilic, inefficient, antagonising, untidy, lunatic, albino, conceited, inflated, impertinent, underhand, lazy and smug.”

Q4 “He has glaring faults, and they have certainly glared at us this term.”

Q5 “Hopeless . . . certainly on the road to failure.”

Q6. ".. shows great originality, which must be curbed at all costs.”

Q7. "... has set herself an extremely low standard which she has failed to maintain'

Q8, "...grasp of elementary dynamics is truly astonishing. Had he lived in an earlier aeon, I have little doubt but that the wheel would now be square and the principle of the lever just one more of man’s impossible dreams'

I think the whole year is going to be awful, and we'll be waiting in dread for the 26 week review - will the axe fall then? Can we do anything? Things feel quite hopeless/pointless - what a frightful trudge!

It's a bit like learning to drive - lots of going through the individual bits - then suddenly for no apparent reason it comes together.

Jeff