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  • Am I right to stand up?

    what authority should i go to in order to report someone lying about their precriptions. the person in question is endorsing their precriptions fausley, giving out geniric drugs to customers but, endorsing them with the most expensive branded drugs.i do not know who to report this too, but i have been advised by the CAB to do so. thanx

  • #2
    Originally posted by pebbles8901 View Post
    what authority should i go to in order to report someone lying about their precriptions. the person in question is endorsing their precriptions fausley, giving out geniric drugs to customers but, endorsing them with the most expensive branded drugs.i do not know who to report this too, but i have been advised by the CAB to do so. thanx
    Are you a pharmacist working there? If so be careful because it could be blamed on you. Have you checked the payment for these drugs in the drug tariff? A lot of things are category A with a fixed payment - are you sure they fall outside of this category?

    The best thing to do in this case (only in my opinion) would be to contact the society, as it looks at first glance of a clear case of fraud, if that is what they are doing.

    Whats the CAB ?
    Lively debate is encouraged but please respect the opinions and feelings of others.
    Please help keep the forum vibrant by spreading the work to friends and colleagues via word of mouth or social media.
    Thank you for contributing to this site.

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    • #3
      no, i am not the pharmacist, i was working there as a trainee pharmacuitcal assistant. i know what he is doing is wrong as he was very stingey about giving out branded drugs. i'm sure that if any investigation was carried out this would show up on invocies?wouldn't it?it just wouldnt add up. the cab is the sitizens advice bureau, i'm currently in the process of raising a greivane with the person in question.

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      • #4
        well done but perhaps you illustrate poor grasp of spelling these days.
        johnep

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        • #5
          The one thing that stands out for me is the grievance bit.

          If you believe fraud is going on then it should be reported but if you report it while the grievance process is ongoing then it may look like a malicious complaint and may muddy the waters regarding your case.

          The CAB are usually good for legal advice etc. but in this case I would say that their advice is a little askew. I cannot believe that a trainee pharmaceutical assistant would be held responsible for endorsement fraud in a pharmacy.

          Just in case, personally, I would write a letter to myself recorded delivery. Stating the facts as you see them and that you plan to report the matter to the local PCT or the Society after the grievance case has been heard. When it arrives sign for it and file it away still sealed.

          If the shit hits the fan you have a dated letter that the Post Office will have details of saying the reasons why you have not mentioned it to anyone.


          Don't know how legally binding this would be but that's how I'd go in your position.
          Linnear MRPharmS

          Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder: The biggest cause of brain damage and 100% preventable.

          In pregnancy: 1 fag is not safe, 1 x-ray is not safe and 1 drink is not safe.



          For handy pharmacy links try
          pharmacistance.co.uk

          If you like my posts or letters in the journal try my books!
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          • #6
            Originally posted by pebbles8901 View Post
            no, i am not the pharmacist, i was working there as a trainee pharmacuitcal assistant. i know what he is doing is wrong as he was very stingey about giving out branded drugs. i'm sure that if any investigation was carried out this would show up on invocies?wouldn't it?it just wouldnt add up. the cab is the sitizens advice bureau, i'm currently in the process of raising a greivane with the person in question.
            Standard practice is to give a generic when the script is written as a generic drug. What examples can you give us? There wouldn't be any invoices involved, just the prescriptions.

            Can I ask, if you are a trainee pharmaceutical assistant, how do you know what products he should have dispensed? Did you work in the dispensary? How do you know he wasn't following what was on the script, and did you look through the scripts after he endorsed them to make this claim? What's the nature of the grievance?

            I'm only asking these, because I think they will be the first questions you will be asked. I am not suggesting that you are doing this because you have a grievance with him, but if you were to do it for malicious reasons expect to be counter sued.
            Lively debate is encouraged but please respect the opinions and feelings of others.
            Please help keep the forum vibrant by spreading the work to friends and colleagues via word of mouth or social media.
            Thank you for contributing to this site.

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            • #7
              Pebbles:
              the NHS counter fraud division have a confidential "fraud and corruption reporting line":
              0800 0284060 mon-fri 8am-6pm; for more details, see:
              http://www.cfsms.nhs.uk/
              Ze genuine Article, present & perfect!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by pebbles8901 View Post
                no, i am not the pharmacist, i was working there as a trainee pharmacuitcal assistant. i know what he is doing is wrong as he was very stingey about giving out branded drugs. i'm sure that if any investigation was carried out this would show up on invocies?wouldn't it?it just wouldnt add up. the cab is the sitizens advice bureau, i'm currently in the process of raising a greivane with the person in question.
                Whether or not there is a grievance compliant ongoing it still does not alter that fact that, if your facts are right, this pharmacist is commiting fraud. And, since there is a criminal activity taking place you have a duty to report it.

                Firstly, MAKE SURE YOUR FACTS ARE RIGHT. Please give us examples of:
                (a) What the doctor wrote on the prescription
                (b) What was actually given out to the patient
                (c) What the pharmacist endorsed on the prescription (i.e. what he/she wrote in the left hand column)

                As a trainee pharmaceutical assistant you will not be responsible for and of the fraud (I'm assuming you haven't endorsed prescriptions or done anything else untoward).

                (N.B. This is just advice, I'm no pharmaceutical lawyer. Get proper legal advice.)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by N.T View Post

                  Firstly, MAKE SURE YOUR FACTS ARE RIGHT. Please give us examples of:
                  (a) What the doctor wrote on the prescription
                  (b) What was actually given out to the patient
                  (c) What the pharmacist endorsed on the prescription (i.e. what he/she wrote in the left hand column)
                  Also, if you could get any photo evidence of this going on this would help you. Although it is the actual job of the NHS Counter Fraud division to do this it would probably be beneficial to have evidence to 'get the case rolling' and prove that it's not a grudge.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Am I right to stand up?

                    Originally posted by johnep View Post
                    well done but perhaps you illustrate poor grasp of spelling these days.
                    johnep
                    I apologise for my spelling,but the situation did not allow me to get my dictionary out.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Am I right to stand up?

                      i would like to thank you all for your advice. I will take it all into account and will soon be seeing a solisitor. I will keep you posted.thank's again

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                      • #12
                        Re: Am I right to stand up?

                        i am a bit confused here about what is considered a fraud???? any refernce guys to help?

                        1- giving efcortelan for a script saying hydrocortisone 1 % 30 g??? i dont see it as a fraud as we are supplying a brand for a generic, and i believe we are allowed to do it but not the other way around ( i.e sometimes we have to give brand for generic scripts if we out of generic or if there is a big need fro a regular customer, so i guess it's fair enough to supply a cheaper brand when more expenive generic is prescribed". the same goes for ventolin when sometimes we obtain it cheaper than salamol.
                        2- for example script saying isosorbide mononitrate, we supplied monomax XL tabs and endorsed isotard Xl "assuming we got paid more for it", is it considered a fraud?

                        waiting to hear back from someone
                        [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                        [/COLOR]

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                        • #13
                          Re: Am I right to stand up?

                          "I will keep you posted.thank's again"
                          hellooooo :P
                          [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                          [/COLOR]

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                          • #14
                            Re: Am I right to stand up?

                            If it is not possible to supply the brand, then always ask the pt first. The script should be endorsed with what is actually supplied with note such as mcs etc. Supplying a generic and claiming for a more expensive brand is fraud.
                            johnep

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Am I right to stand up?

                              Originally posted by Ray View Post
                              i am a bit confused here about what is considered a fraud???? any refernce guys to help?

                              1- giving efcortelan for a script saying hydrocortisone 1 % 30 g??? i dont see it as a fraud as we are supplying a brand for a generic, and i believe we are allowed to do it but not the other way around ( i.e sometimes we have to give brand for generic scripts if we out of generic or if there is a big need fro a regular customer, so i guess it's fair enough to supply a cheaper brand when more expenive generic is prescribed". the same goes for ventolin when sometimes we obtain it cheaper than salamol.
                              2- for example script saying isosorbide mononitrate, we supplied monomax XL tabs and endorsed isotard Xl "assuming we got paid more for it", is it considered a fraud?

                              waiting to hear back from someone
                              No, none of your examples above would be classed as fraud, as whatever you endorse the script as, you'd still receive the same amount in reimbursement (this wasn't always the case with the isosorbide mono 60mg MR tabs, but it is now- £11.14 per 28, whatever you dispense.)
                              BUT: if you were to dispense a 500g-pump dispenser of diprobase cream (which is back in stock in AAH, I got 24 of them today!) and endorsed the script "10x50g", THEN you would be committing fraud; there have been a number of phcists who have been successfully prosecuted and "statcommed" recently for such offences.
                              Ze genuine Article, present & perfect!

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