26 weeek review

[parent of pre-reg student]

Looks like my daughter won't get to be a Pharmacist - just wish we hadn't got into debt for the 4 yr degree - any ideas what she can do instead?
She got a very damning review - box 4 - the worst option ticked and a long report about how poor she is. We've written a long letter addressing every point, but I hold out no hope now. I don't recognise her at all as seen through a pharmacist's eyes - she has her down as a stupid slob who could not care less - I see her working every night and in tears all the time. I give you Mephostophilis' answer to Faustus - "this is hell, nor am I out of it", and celebrate my joy in English Literature. The job may be grim at times (teaching) but the sources never fail to ring true - happiness is the occassional episode in a general drama of pain!
Farewell Galen!

[johnep]

Re: 26 weeek review

judicial review with society.? students who fail prereg after three tries in same boat. Perhaps the old system of apprenticeship which I did would have helped. I started at 16 as Saturday boy, and, apart from the hours and working easter saturday generally enjoyed it.

Used to be that failed medical students used to become medical reps, but I would not suggest this now. Perhaps a letter to every pharmaceutical co might help. registration not necessary in industry.
johnep

[Pharmanaut]

Re: 26 weeek review

Looks like my daughter won't get to be a Pharmacist - just wish we hadn't got into debt for the 4 yr degree - any ideas what she can do instead?
She got a very damning review - box 4 - the worst option ticked and a long report about how poor she is. We've written a long letter addressing every point, but I hold out no hope now. I don't recognise her at all as seen through a pharmacist's eyes - she has her down as a stupid slob who could not care less - I see her working every night and in tears all the time. I give you Mephostophilis' answer to Faustus - "this is hell, nor am I out of it", and celebrate my joy in English Literature. The job may be grim at times (teaching) but the sources never fail to ring true - happiness is the occassional episode in a general drama of pain!
Farewell Galen!

I would contact the RPSGB ASAP and seek their advice.

If it is definitely gone, pharmacy is still a valuable science degree.
What about becoming a science teacher - a pharmacy graduate should have the capacity to teach biol/phys/chem.
One of the Masters degree IT conversion courses is also an option.

[ramroum]

Re: 26 weeek review

This is unfair.

[Pharmanaut]

Re: 26 weeek review

This is unfair.
Pharmacy is the only professin which gives the personal opinion of one person (tutor) an enormous importance which can ruin the student's future unfairly.
some students are much worse than Clare but they have much nicer tutors, so it is a game of luck. Can't the society see this!!
Why should she study further (at least one year) to become a teacher or anything else?? She studied v.hard to get good A levels, then studied even harder to pass the 4 years uni, so every one should have the opportunity to sit the exam regrdless of what their tutors think of them. Tutors should be there for guidance and help only and not in the position of allowing us to sit exam or not!!

See posting in other thread...
Advice to get on the phone to RPSGB etc etc.

[Asterix]

Re: 26 weeek review

I have just read this and it worries me. So after if you fail the pre reg year, you do not get another chance at it?!

[Titch]

Re: 26 weeek review

I have just read this and it worries me. So after if you fail the pre reg year, you do not get another chance at it?!

You get 3 chances at the exam.

Tutor sends in appraisals at 13, 26 and 39 weeks - from memory 39wk one is the decider as that recommends you as suitable to sit the exam or not.


Going back to the actual original thread - do as everyone else suggested - contact society.

I remember coming across a poor pre-reg student as a locum - they had been moved pharmacies within the same chain due to difficulties with their tutor and 2nd tutor still not happy with their competence. Ended up not being signed off to sit exam - did a further 6 months and then sat - passed and now a pharmacist.
From what I've read of this post this does not seem the case here in that the pre-reg is not at fault. However, by the route described above there should be opportunity to resolve the matter without looking at a fundamental change of career unless that is what she needs now that her tutor has effectively broken her spirit.

[Jeff]

Re: 26 weeek review

You get 3 chances at the exam.

So if you restart your pre-reg before taking the exam is a chance lost?

Jeff

[the old merlin]

Re: 26 weeek review

I've looked at the RSPGB website, and in the Guidance for Tutors (www.rpsgb.org.uk/pdfs/preregtutinf07-08.pdf) there's this.
It is often very helpful for a preregistration trainee to have a mentor for his training year in addition to the tutor.
The mentor should be a person, who is able to guide and support the trainee in a non-judgmental way (whereas the tutor’s role is to judge and assess the trainee’s performance). Often the most suitable person is a recently registered pharmacist and it may be possible in larger placements to identify such a person. You might have to think laterally to identify a mentor for your trainee if there are no other pharmacists at your pharmacy. Perhaps you could ask another local tutor to be the mentor for your trainee and you could offer to be a mentor to his trainee.
Your trainee will undoubtedly experience some difficulties during the year - most are likely to be minor but some could be more significant - and so he will be glad to have someone to discuss things with who has sufficient awareness and understanding but who is not responsible for assessing him. It can require exceptional skill, and be a very difficult situation, for a tutor to be both judge and ‘friend’ to his trainee.

There is also this.
The RPSGB requires each approved placement to have a preregistration
manager. This situation occurs when the tutor has another line manager. The
training manager is a person who:
• is accountable to the RPSGB for preregistration training conducted at the
pharmacy. He must therefore have sufficient authority in the organisation to
ensure that the RPSGB’s Byelaws and training requirements are adhered to and
that training at the placement is evaluated and updated as necessary;

There are some other requirements as well. It is possible for the manager and the Tutor to be the same person, in a owner-managed independent for example, but if the pre-reg is in a company there might well be some one else.

There is also what is called Cross-Sector experience, where the Society EXPECTS the tutor to arrange for the student to spend some time in another sector. Thus a student in community should spend some time in a local hospital. That will give another opinion. What arrangements have been made for this?

However, at the end of the day the Society must be contacted. It isn't populated by ogres, who will automatically take the tutors word. We all know that things can go wrong, for all sorts of reasons. It is also possible to change pre-reg places, and the Registrar has discretion.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE though, don't let your daughter struggle alone. If things are really as bad, and unfair, as you say get someone else involved, preferably on a face-to-face basis. Several experienced pharmacists on this board have offered to be contacted through the private messaging system; if things really are as bad as you say, I'm somewhat surprised you haven't taken up one of those offers.

[parent of pre-reg student]

Re: 26 weeek review

See private message please

[Titch]

Re: 26 weeek review

So if you restart your pre-reg before taking the exam is a chance lost?

Jeff

No idea Jeff - not up on pre-reg regs to that extent.

Think it'll depend on what you mean by restart the pre-reg year - not sure if you can do that or if you can only extend experience for up to 6 months to become ready to sit exam.

[parent of pre-reg student]

Re: 26 weeek review

Just thought all those of you who recommended contact the Society might like to see the reply to our email - what do you think?

"Thank you for your email. Having read your comments I have placed a copy of your email in your file for future reference.



As regards to problems or issues that may arise between a tutor and Preregistration Trainee, unfortunately it is not within our remit to interfere.

Obviously our concern is your Preregistration Training and we can advise you as to what options are available to you, however it is not possible for us to get involved with disputes as such.



Our first line of advice is to voice your concerns and discuss your situation with your superintendent or Preregistration Manager or HR to see whether any sort of resolution can be made. If this is not successful then you can contact the Division, in particular the Preregistration Manager (Jill Watt) to find out what you can do in terms of your Preregistration Training i.e. move to another branch/pharmacy etc, but as noted above we cannot directly become involved with any person discrepancies between a tutor and trainee. You are entitled to make a complaint to the Division about your tutor so that it is noted, but again this is not to guarantee we will interfere.



I hope that this helps with your query.



Kind Regards





Preregistration Division

Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain

1 Lambeth High Street

London

SE1 7JN

[Pharmanaut]

Re: 26 weeek review

If you follow the course of action suggested and keep them informed as you do so.
I would also get your superindendant or whoever co-ordinates pre-reg and have a meeting with them ASAP do discuss these matters.
If you are with a chain, could you be asked to spend some time at another branch?

[admin]

Re: 26 weeek review

Just thought all those of you who recommended contact the Society might like to see the reply to our email - what do you think?

It doesn't seem very helpful does it? Virtually every call I have ever made to the society seemed to be on a subject that wasn't within their remit. I wonder what their remit actually is - apart from being the Gestapo of the pharmacy world. That, and they like putting up my fees massively. My job seems to get worse every year though.......

[Pharmanaut]

Re: 26 weeek review

It doesn't seem very helpful does it? Virtually every call I have ever made to the society seemed to be on a subject that wasn't within their remit. I wonder what their remit actually is - apart from being the Gestapo of the pharmacy world. That, and they like putting up my fees massively. My job seems to get worse every year though.......

Usually they just quote the regulations at you. Not much help when you need to make a decision about real people.
Wonder if this will change after the 'split'.