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Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

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  • Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

    Should the goverment scrap MURs and replace it with a similar scheme but integrate it into the current FP10 and the future we've been promised!

    What about if there was a box asking the patient to tick and sign if she has recieved appropriate advice from the pharmacist/dispenser

    Box to be ticked if intevention has been made ....this could include our day to day interventions or lifestyle interventions(public health role) '

    The pharmacist initials/reg number should also be on script , once the clinical check etc has been done .

    Dispenser and ACT signature should also be on script to ensure that the ACT doesn't disp and check

    This should be for all prescriptions , mot just for a certain limit, so perhaps a fee of £4 -5 per script would suffice ,and the current MUR pressure would be off

    MUR £27 /400 = £10,800

    but if the above method is adopted (PSNC would have to negotiate)
    £5x 4000scripts(av) =£20,000, more expensive but this would include our public health role/clinical role etc;

    Does anyone think its a workable idea
    Last edited by kemzero; 17, July 2008, 04:48 PM.
    Kemzo the pharmacist forumly known as kemzero

  • #2
    Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

    Is it compulsory for such info to be given in the USA.? Perhaps that is why they get you to sign a waiver on collection.
    johnep

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    • #3
      Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

      Oui Johnep

      So you can't turn back and sue for side-effects etc
      Kemzo the pharmacist forumly known as kemzero

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      • #4
        Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

        Originally posted by kemzero View Post
        The pharmacist initials/reg number should also be on script , once the clinical check etc has been done .

        Dispenser and ACT signature should also be on script to ensure that the ACT doesn't disp and check
        One group I work for has the following on a script on the bottom right hand corner:
        An identifier to:
        Who took in the script
        Who labelled it
        Who dispensed it
        Which pharmacist

        If its an ACT script the pharmacist puts ACT on the top after the clinical check.

        Yes I think MURs should be scrapped but don't agree to the particular changes you recommend.

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        • #5
          Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

          I think that MUR's are a good idea. Certainly in my hospital trust, we will refer people to their community pharmacy for an MUR if we believe that they need one post discharge to see how they're getting on. The trouble is, the pharmacy chains have ruined them by setting targets. A lot of pharmacies that I have locumed in aim to get quick and easy MUR's to make up the numbers - meaning that those who really could do with an MUR (ie the complicated ones) are not targeted. Also, GPs now have to wade through a veritable flood of MUR forms, most of which are worthless - doesn't endear our profession to them!

          I was told recently at a community pharmacy that the permament pharmacist was told by his area manager that an MUR could be done in three and a half minutes!!! I wonder what the quality of that MUR would have been? Would it be useful to the patient and GP? I doubt it!!
          Band6 is a Band 6 no longer.. now 7/8a

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          • #6
            Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

            we should all club together and get someone techy to help us breed a race of small monkeys that can sit on area managers shoulders and bite them on the ear every time they say a phrase containing the words "MUR Target"


            I'd happily donate the change in my pocket for that!

            “It's not worth doing something unless you were doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing.”

            Terry Pratchett

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            • #7
              Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

              Originally posted by Sir_Dispensalot View Post
              we should all club together and get someone techy to help us breed a race of small monkeys that can sit on area managers shoulders and bite them on the ear every time they say a phrase containing the words "MUR Target"


              I'd happily donate the change in my pocket for that!

              I'd donate more than the change in my pocket
              Titch

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              • #8
                Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                I work for Lloyds and a PCT
                I get the crap of meeting targets for MURs, while hearing the public announcement bullshit from senior management how they are not pressurising pharmcists from achieving their targets and are only 'concerned' about patients(= £27)
                With my PCT hat on I can tell you they are not stupid and know exactly what's going on, I'm not sure how long this farce will continue.

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                • #9
                  Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                  "What about if there was a box asking the patient to tick and sign if she has recieved appropriate advice from the pharmacist/dispenser"
                  in the USA, they have a similar system.... problems arise when counter assistent do not inform the patients what are they signing for.
                  [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                  [/COLOR]

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                  • #10
                    Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                    "I work for Lloyds and a PCT"
                    i just got a pre-reg offer from Lloyds, if possible PM me with any advice based on your experience and the "pressurising p'cists issues"..etc
                    i believe i am going to accept the offer even that working with "independents" is great :P
                    [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                    [/COLOR]

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                    • #11
                      Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                      The multiples have just turned a good idea into a money making scheme. We hate the bullying emails from Head Office reporting those who haven't done any MUR's and the pathetic league tables they send every day.......

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                      • #12
                        Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                        Originally posted by dizzyb23 View Post
                        The multiples have just turned a good idea into a money making scheme. We hate the bullying emails from Head Office reporting those who haven't done any MUR's and the pathetic league tables they send every day.......
                        Head office the world over regard any lost opportunity for a lost sale as losing money.
                        Probably training packs for assistance mention companion sales, such as a box of tissues if someone buys night nurse etc.

                        Look at it this way...
                        If you have a consulting room, are accredited to to them. Then have told the patients about MURs, recommended to some that they have one, have booked patients in for them, then you have done what you can do.

                        I'm guessing here - the main reason why a lot of us are less than willing to do them is that we are conscious that prescriptions and MDS are stacking up while we are absent, and once that happens it creates stress on the dispensary team to catch up. One lapse of concentration and....
                        47 BC : Julius Cesar : Veni Vidi Vici : I came, I saw I conquered.
                        2018 AD : Modern Man : I shopped, I clicked, I collected.
                        How times change.

                        If you find you have read something that has upset or offended you an anyway please unread it at once.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                          the permament pharmacist was told by his area manager that an MUR could be done in three and a half minutes
                          I once had pharmacist a few weeks back asking me questions about MURs etc... (he'd been qualified for like 10 years and I think it was my second week, lol) and it transpired that he's been doing MURs on things that required basic advice and in in situations where MURs didnt apply, e.g. I think a youngish girl/woman/female must have come with a Rx for some penicillin and was on the pill, so he ended up doing a whole MUR because of the interaction, I had hard time explaining to him that MURs are Medication use review, and how can you do a medicines USE review on medicines that the patient hasnt USED. his line of argument was that he was advising patients about the use of medicines, I ended up leaving him to his thoughts, for some reason the word "review" didnt stick in his head, aso at that time I wasnt accredited and he was, which is quite amusing and ironic at the same time.

                          i bet that MUR took 3.5mins and went towards meeting the pharmacist's MUR target.
                          We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams and God damn we are that good

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                          • #14
                            Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                            Originally posted by SolomonQ View Post
                            I once had pharmacist a few weeks back asking me questions about MURs etc... (he'd been qualified for like 10 years and I think it was my second week, lol) and it transpired that he's been doing MURs on things that required basic advice and in in situations where MURs didnt apply, e.g. I think a youngish girl/woman/female must have come with a Rx for some penicillin and was on the pill, so he ended up doing a whole MUR because of the interaction,
                            The interaction isn't even needed for the MUR - nowt wrong with doing a MUR on a young woman taking the Pill - look at the actual failure rate.

                            i bet that MUR took 3.5mins and went towards meeting the pharmacist's MUR target.
                            Why only choose difficult ones? The idea is to make a difference.

                            Jeff

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                            • #15
                              Re: Should MURs be scrapped and replaced with something different

                              Yes Get rid of them . . .

                              They're a pain in my arse!!!!

                              Saying that I do believe about half of the patients I do them on do benefit from them.

                              So I reckon get rid of the fee.

                              No fee = no pressure from area manager to do them = the patients that will benefit will get them.

                              Im sick of doing them on patients I already know are tip top regarding their meds just so I can tell His Majesty at the end of the week how many I've done.

                              Get rid of the fee!!!!

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