Selling something that will be used unlawfully

[Cherrypicker999]

If someone sells alcohol to a person under 18 he can be prosecuted.

Should a pharmacist sell condoms to a person under 16, since sex under the age of 16 is unlawful (without parental consent)?

Okay, so I will rephrase...
should a pharmacist sell condoms to a person aged 13, since sex at this age is unlawful?

Would it be unprofessional to do so, on the grounds they are encouraging underage sex - an offence?

If you think they should be able to, they why shouldn't pharmacists sell cigarettes (as in the USA) - smoking is not unlawful?

Hypocrisy?

[kemzero]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

There's something about Child protection on the PharmSoc website....
I don't think it should be sold

[johnep]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

male or female?
johnep

[Pharmanaut]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

male or female?
johnep

Its a difficult one, and we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
If they went ahead and had unprotected sex, what of the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy? Or possibly visits to the GUM clinic?

You could refuse to sell and perhaps mention that they also should avoid the vending machine in the local pub as well.

[Jeff]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

Okay, so I will rephrase...
should a pharmacist sell condoms to a person aged 13, since sex at this age is unlawful?

Yes we should sell condoms to 13 year olds - but provide counselling at the same time.

Would it be unprofessional to do so, on the grounds they are encouraging underage sex - an offence?

unprofession not to do so because encouraging unsafe sex.

If you think they should be able to, they why shouldn't pharmacists sell cigarettes (as in the USA) - smoking is not unlawful?

Condom use is responsible and an aid to safety - cigarettes aren't

Hypocrisy?

No

Jeff

[Cherrypicker999]

Selling something that will be used unlawfully

If there is law, then that law should be enforced.
The problem is that the law is not enforced and used in reverse.

Eg If it unlawful to buy alcohol under the age of 18, then if an under 18 year old buys alcohol (or attempts to do so), he should be the one prosecuted, and not the shop keeper.

If a 14 year old attempted to buy alcohol
then he knows the difference between right and wrong. I say give him a criminal record.

So for a few years under 18 year olds will get criminal records. After a few years these people will learn that they have to obey the law.

Then we will see increased discipline and respect for the law.

I say knock the current nonsense on the head.
I don't see why a shop keeper needs to be prosecuted.
The same for drugs. Prosecute those who buy and not the dealers.

For condoms, it should be unlawful to sell them to under 16 year olds.
If you make a law stating they cannot have sex, then stick to it.
Don't make excuses, that they are going to do it anyway, else lower the age of consent and enforce it.

If they get STDs, or become pregnant, tough, give them a criminal record as well.

I say, if it is unlawful to have sex at 16 then it should be unlawful to sell those very people condoms.

I also believe emergency supplies of contraceptives is unlawful as there is no real emergency. If one cannot get a Rx from the doctor (24 hours for a repeat Rx is non-sense, as then the doctor would not consider it an emergency. Else they can go to the out of hours service and wait hours), the options are: use a comdom, femedom, withdrawral or just don't have sex. Yes, don't have sex. It is not essential to have sex! Where is the real emergency?

It is nonsense to claim there is an emergency! Brutal, but true!
The primary objective should be to uphold the law.


Quote:
Would it be unprofessional to do so, on the grounds they are encouraging underage sex - an offence?
Quote:
unprofession not to do so because encouraging unsafe sex

But is it not unprofessional to encourage someone to break the law? Sex for a 13 year old is unlawful.
What is more important, the law or some professional ideology?

As for cigarettes, selling them in a pharmacy does not encourage people to smoke and does not alter the health warning. They would just go next door and buy them.

Johnny says he wants to kill someone - he will punch him to death. That is unlawful. So does your professional; ethics say "sell him a gun" it is safer for him to kill with a gun than hurt his hand punching?
The analogy is safe sex for a 13 year old - unlawful.

Your first duty has to be unhold the law. Ethics and professionalism come second as they are variable from person to person.

[admin]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

Boy, you sure are tolerant aren't you!

[the old merlin]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

Jeff; you are abso b****y lutely right.

Writing as a 70 yr old, I reckon under 16's are going to make love, especially if they get carried away; we did so why are todays young people any different?

The difference is that 50 years ago, condoms were very, very difficult to obtain, and if the girl got pregnant there were these options.

• Her father came round to "his" parents house, there was an almighty row and the "happy" couple got married

• He b******d off to sea, or into the Army and she went off to stay with an "auntie"

• He lied through his teeth, swore he wasn't the father and she went off again to an auntie

• If she went off to an "auntie", she either had a back-street abortion & possibly died or she had the baby adopted. In any case, massive trauma for all concerned.

Do you really, REALLY, want those days back?

And don't tell me "just say no". Easy for some people, maybe. Not for most normal people. I promise.

[Trebor88]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

I thought we pharmacists are law-abiding citizens. Has anyone noticed that under-age sex is illegal? Are we in danger of promoting illegal activities by selling aids for such?

[Cherrypicker999]

Selling something that will be used unlawfully

Old Merlin, if your were brought up in a different country you may find that many people are still virgins when they were married.

Would you sell to a 9 year old?

[Jeff]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

I thought we pharmacists are law-abiding citizens. Has anyone noticed that under-age sex is illegal? Are we in danger of promoting illegal activities by selling aids for such?

No we attempt to make illegal activities safer - e.g. needle exchange.

Jeff

[Cherrypicker999]

Selling something that will be used unlawfully

We shouldn't.

Let then get HIV if they are stupid enough to take drugs.
Let them take responsibility for their own actions.

Once they are caught, they should be imprisoned and go cold turkey.

[Linnear]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

We shouldn't.

Let then get HIV if they are stupid enough to take drugs.
Let them take responsibility for their own actions.

Once they are caught, they should be imprisoned and go cold turkey.

Taking responsibility for your actions and accepting a death sentence are different things in my book.

It's funny, I always get mad when people come in for exchange packs but don't bring any back because I worry that the needles will end up on the beach. Now I realise that I might be on a slippery slope and that in a few years I might end up as a "Death to the infidel drug taker" type.

Thanks for the wake up call! I'll see about changing my attitude forthwith.

[the old merlin]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

When I worked with a Family Planning unit we used to have long, long debates about suppying under 16 yrs olds with contraceptives.

What we used to do, and I understand this is standard practice, is to try very, very hard to discourage such young people from having sex before 16. However, given the times and society in which we live it was generally felt that if a young person was determined, then we were better accepting the situation than having them risk pregnancy.

And, cherrypicker, I realise that some societies have an expectation that people will be virgins at marriage.

I would ask only if that applies to both sexes, because from what I have seen, it only applies to one.

[admin]

Re: Selling something that will be used unlawfully

I've had more then one 14 year old crying her eyes out in the pharmacy, requesting a pregnancy test. I would much rather sell some condoms to a young person then them have to deal with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy at such a young age, or worst still pregnancy and HIV etc

It doesn't matter what the law says, if people are going to have sex at that age they are going to! You cannot stop them, only help through harm minimisation.

The same applies to needle exchange. Plenty of these clients have gone to prison and gone through that cold turkey experience, but they often come out and still go back to drugs. Why? I don't know, they just do. Again all we can do is offer clean equipment, even if it's just to reduce the burden on the NHS further down the line.