Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

[Pharmanaut]

How about this - Capacity Improvement Program.
...Shift most of the work on to the contractor?
...We'll be pricing them ourselves next.
...Improvement - for whom?

Welcome to PSNC- Speaking for Community Pharmacy

[Zoggite]

Re: Sorting it out - CIP

Maybe they should start by learning some basic grammar:
"Guidance for Contractors who's Accounts are being Priced via CIP", it says on their website...

[DavidS]

Re: Sorting it out - CIP

How about this - Capacity Improvement Program.
...Shift most of the work on to the contractor?
...We'll be pricing them ourselves next.
...Improvement - for whom?

Welcome to PSNC- Speaking for Community Pharmacy

I've been wondering why there is no thread specifically devoted to the significant advance in technology known as the CIP.

When I say significant advance, what I mean is the new way the the DOH manages to do us out of payments that we have earned, by arbitrarily hitting us with a new set of rules, rubber stamped by the PSNC.

I think it would be useful to post on the various things that community pharmacists need to be aware of to avoid the worst of these swindles.

Some have been covered in another thread, involved in manufacturer's shortages: http://www.pharmacy-forum.co.uk/gene...ot-supply.html which could be subtitled "how not to be ripped off by trying hard to get the drugs for your patients".

[PinkGlitter]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

Check all your resubs carefully. I have had some for dressings come back saying disallowed when they are quite clearly in the Drug Tariff. I had to phone them and they said to resend it and it got paid the next month.

[Chirpy]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

I like flucloxacillin syrup being returned to be endorsed

Oh and 2 x medisense optium testing strips slipped through the net in december.

I try to stay on top of the PSNC newletter that warns you of these things - usually just after you had a load of resubs returned. Lets you know why they were returned!

I know that strictly speaking you should endorse with a price anything not listed ie brand names - traditionally you didn't have to do this & as long as the brand was listed in C&D you were OK. My old guru used to tell me to imagine 2 monkeys in a room, one with the drug tariff & one with the C&D. If they couldn't find it listed as prescribed then you had to endorse. I would have thought this analogy would be more pertinent now, but it seems not to be the case. I get I Caps (alcon) & other brands returned and sometimes (but not always) I get Lansinoh returned - I like to think it is because the CIP scanner can't spell and looks for lasinoh-not quite worked it out yet.

p.s. no disrespect intended to the excellent staff at the PPD, they are always useful on the phone & I suspect that if WE find CIP frustrating - they must be tearing their hair out

[Jeff]

Re: Sorting it out - CIP

I've been wondering why there is no thread specifically devoted to the significant advance in technology known as the CIP.

Your timing is ....er.... coincidental.

The most significant advance being that if you make the assumption that everything that you do is correct then your recorded error rate is remarkably low.

Jeff

[DavidS]

Re: Sorting it out - CIP

Your timing is ....er.... coincidental.

with? ...

[bobbin]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

I know that strictly speaking you should endorse with a price anything not listed ie brand names - traditionally you didn't have to do this & as long as the brand was listed in C&D you were OK. My old guru used to tell me to imagine 2 monkeys in a room, one with the drug tariff & one with the C&D. If they couldn't find it listed as prescribed then you had to endorse. I would have thought this analogy would be more pertinent now, but it seems not to be the case. I get I Caps (alcon) & other brands returned and sometimes (but not always) I get Lansinoh returned - I like to think it is because the CIP scanner can't spell and looks for lasinoh-not quite worked it out yet.

As far as I know, the PPD don't use the C&D price list, they only use their own price list - which can be found here............(you must be using Internet Explorer, Firefox and other browsers can't cope with the PPD's price list)........

Prescription Pricing Authority - DMD Browser

If a drug has been prescribed generically, and is listed in the drug tariff, you will be paid the drug tariff price (for the endorsed pack size).

If a drug has been prescribed by brand, it is only necessary to endorse a price if the PPD do not have a price on their database.

If a drug has been prescribed generically but is not listed in the drug tariff, you will be paid for the brand which you have endorsed. In most cases, the PPD will have a price for that brand on their price list. If not eg. for some glucosamine products, it is necessary to endorse a price.

If the PPD have a price for a product on their price list, this will always take precedence over the price which has been endorsed eg. if you endorse 1 x 30 glucosamine 500mg caps made by XYZ pharama £2.50, but the PPD database says that the price for the XYZ brand is actually £1.50, your endorsement will be ignored, even if this is what you have actually paid.

The PPD's frustrating dm+d price list is certainly more difficult to use than the C&D! To find out whether the PPD have a price, you can search for a product under three categories...

1. AMP (actual medicinal product ie. the specific brand) eg. Zincomed

2. VMP (virtual medicinal product ie. the full generic title) eg. zinc sulphate 220mg caps

3. VTM (virtual therapeutic moiety ie. the name of the active ingredient) eg. zinc sulphate

The easiest way of finding a product in this database (such as Zincomed) is by clicking on VTM and typing in the name of the drug as one work only eg. zinc.........then clicking on zinc sulphate.........then clicking on zinc sulphate 220mg caps..........then clicking on Zincomed......then clicking on the pack size in the AMPP window. If you click on '30 capsule' you will see that the PPD list a price of £4.50, and so it is not necessary to endorse a price for this product.

Hey, by the time you've done all this you could have checked another 10 scripts

[JonF]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

Bobbin, is there no end to your knowledge of all things Drug Tariff etc??

I'm learning more and more each day!!

[bobbin]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

I like flucloxacillin syrup being returned to be endorsed

Oh and 2 x medisense optium testing strips slipped through the net in december.

I try to stay on top of the PSNC newletter that warns you of these things - usually just after you had a load of resubs returned. Lets you know why they were returned!

I know that strictly speaking you should endorse with a price anything not listed ie brand names - traditionally you didn't have to do this & as long as the brand was listed in C&D you were OK. My old guru used to tell me to imagine 2 monkeys in a room, one with the drug tariff & one with the C&D. If they couldn't find it listed as prescribed then you had to endorse. I would have thought this analogy would be more pertinent now, but it seems not to be the case. I get I Caps (alcon) & other brands returned and sometimes (but not always) I get Lansinoh returned - I like to think it is because the CIP scanner can't spell and looks for lasinoh-not quite worked it out yet.

p.s. no disrespect intended to the excellent staff at the PPD, they are always useful on the phone & I suspect that if WE find CIP frustrating - they must be tearing their hair out

Hi again

There is no price for Lansinoh in the PPD database - I just checked. You should definitely endorse the price. Do not count on them to open the C&D! They have millions of scripts to price so are unlikely to bother

They do have the price for ICAPS however, so you should not need to endose the price for this item - £7.19 for 60. In some cases, the PPD seem to return items even when they do have a price.......perhaps even the PPD staff find their database challenging to use!

Flucloxacillin syrup and elixir have been an issue for many pharmacies because they do not appear in the Drug Tariff. The Tariff only lists the 'oral solution' and the 'oral suspension'. If the wording on the prescription or your endorsement does not match the wording in the Tariff, the staff at the PPD sometimes get confused. For example, if you endorse flucloxacillin syrup, should the PPD pay you the Tariff price for the 'oral solution' or the 'oral suspension'? Personally, I can't see why it's necessary to have separate prices for the solution and the suspension, we only have one flucloxacillin brand in our pharmacy which we give to everyone.

With regard to Medisense Optium Plus, the PPD have a policy of disallowing all scripts for medical devices, dressings and appliances prescribed under the 'old name', once the old name has been removed from the Tariff. As per their usual protocol, both the old name 'Medisense Optium Plus' and the new name 'Optium Plus' were listed for *one year* after the manufacturer changed the name.........after this point, any script written as Medisense Optium Plus will be disallowed, even if you have correctly endorsed it with the new name 'Optium Plus'.

Watch out for other examples........

Ascensia Microfill test strips are being renamed Contour test strips. At the moment, both names are listed in the Tariff and so are 'allowed' but after one year of dual listing the old name will be removed meaning that scripts for Ascensia will be disallowed. It's a good idea to send a letter to the local practice pharmacist (if you have one) asking them to amend the computer records at the surgery. Ascensia Microlet lancets are being renamed Microlet lancets. Scripts for both names are allowed at the moment......but only for one year.

Older examples.........

Products in the Profore range can only be prescribed using the new names eg. Soffban is disallowed (old name) whereas Profore No1 (new name) is allowed.

Sharpsbin is disallowed.......but can be precribed under the new name Sharpsguard.

Size changes.......

Beware of Mepilex Dressing and Mepilex Border. All of the old sizes have been removed from the Tariff and replaced with a range of new sizes. Any prescriptions for the old sizes will be disallowed.

Bobbin

[bobbin]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

Bobbin, is there no end to your knowledge of all things Drug Tariff etc??

I'm learning more and more each day!!

Thank you, how kind

[Pharmanaut]

Re: Sorting it out - The Capacity Improvement Program

Watch out for 'Branded Generics'.
The PPA will return those with more than one manufacturer unless you endorse it.