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Nurses in community pharmacy

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  • Nurses in community pharmacy

    Nurses are not cheaper thn pharmacists they charge the same rate some nurses are on 50 60 an hour. Its a fact the days of higly paid pharmacists are gone.



    I’m starting to see job adverts for nurses to work in community pharmacies. https://www.superdrug.jobs/vacancies...619084_31.html

    When it comes to hiring someone to give vaccinations and deliver health promotion a nurse is cheaper than a pharmacist. Even though I’m currently training to be a nurse, whilst still working in a community pharmacy, I feel this sort of role should be for techs with further training. If only groups like the PDA weren’t so anti techs, this would be a great way to allow techs who are interested in this aspect of community pharmacy to develop further, whilst saving money. Pharmacy technicians seem to be the only registered HCPs who can’t give meds through a PGD, even HCAs and ambulance technicians can (more or less) and they aren’t even registered.

    Anyway, the point being what do you think are the benefits and disadvantages of nurses in community pharmacy, beyond the lower wages?
    Last edited by Primrose; 14th, December 2017, 09:50 AM.

  • #2
    When I did my apprenticeship back in 1952 with the shoe, we had a nurse on the surgical counter. She did truss measurements and gave advice etc.
    johnep

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    • #3
      Beyond lower wages, the nursing sector has a casualisation, agency and zero hour system in it. Yes locums are aplenty in pharmacy and even some dispensers and techs locum, but it's adding to those that are agencies/zero hours/casualisation.

      Is there a difference in regulatory burdern for the employer/worker/company? So many locums won't get flu training, is it easier or more integrated for nurses? If this is the case repeated for various other things. Is is easier to persuade a nurse to go off to do training/do a service than a pharmacist?

      There's no doubt for me that people working in retail pharmacy are massively underutilised, even healthcare assistants and dispensers (hears the SHOUTS already), let alone techs or pharmacists. In pharmacies I've worked in there is (small sample) a reluctance/confidence issue on having more hands on services or to be blunt anything that doesn't involve selling or highly repetitive processes (think retail and selling or stacking/other processes). The stuff of late about health promotion colleagues are very reluctant/sceptical about doing any of that. Or actually setting aside time needed (not that much) to train people.

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      • #4
        It's also preparation for providing commissioned outreach healthcare services. Lloyds are re-visiting their health centre plans and others will follow.

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        • #5
          In my experience some techs do not like close patient contact roles such as reluctance to do health checks or smoking advice on a one to one basis. They like to be alone checking or doung dds very few are into one to one patient facing roles. This is my obsevation

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          • #6
            Some companies do hire nurses to do certain checks such as mole checking and allergy tests. I have seen this happen.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by johnep View Post
              When I did my apprenticeship back in 1952 with the shoe, we had a nurse on the surgical counter. She did truss measurements and gave advice etc.
              johnep
              Tusses do people still wear those?

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              • #8
                What replaced them for hernia?
                johnep

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by johnep View Post
                  What replaced them for hernia?
                  johnep
                  look!

                  http://herniaremediation.org/wp-cont...ia_support.jpg

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                  • #10
                    Looks uncomfortable.
                    johnep

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                    • #11
                      When in CMK, it was always me asked to deal with any queries and complaints. The dispensary staff preferred to stay hidden.
                      johnep

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                      • #12
                        They do the silent meerkat thing. The worrying thing is some of those will go on to be techs on the register. God help us!

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                        • #13
                          It does seem to be true that many techs and senior dispensers dislike patient contact. Is that cause or effect? There are lots of MCAs who love patient interaction, but where do they go in their careers. Become a tech and you tend to be shut away in the dispensary. So could it be that the people who stay in support staff roles and go on to become techs are those that don’t like patient contact.

                          I’m not suggesting that all techs are made to give vaccinations, etc. Instead that the option is open to those that want to.

                          I agree with Mcitr that support staff are under utilised. If you look at the list of things HCAs can do in a GP practice compared to what an MCA or even a tech can do in a pharmacy.

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                          • #14
                            When an HCA sees someone vomit they show empathy when a pharmacy CA sees vomit they show disgust. Just an observation i witnessed in both settings.
                            what im trying to say is can we reflect and change our recruitment and selection process? We are choosing introverts who dislike interaction at different levels and who want to "mono think" a phrase i devised which means unable to process a multi step reflective process. Ie can only follow repetitive tasks that do not change if you throigh in an obstacle then the breaks come on!
                            Don't tell you you have never seen a monothinking CA?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Primrose View Post
                              When an HCA sees someone vomit they show empathy when a pharmacy CA sees vomit they show disgust. Just an observation i witnessed in both settings.
                              what im trying to say is can we reflect and change our recruitment and selection process? We are choosing introverts who dislike interaction at different levels and who want to "mono think" a phrase i devised which means unable to process a multi step reflective process. Ie can only follow repetitive tasks that do not change if you throigh in an obstacle then the breaks come on!
                              Don't tell you you have never seen a monothinking CA?
                              Mono thinking is ubiquitous in other retail environments. And other service sector environments with similar cultures. It is not really an extroversion/introversion scale thing (although some may argue it has a fair bit to do with three of the other big five personality traits). It's a bad management thing.

                              Mono thinking comes about because
                              • there is a boss they don't trust
                              • there are other colleagues they don't trust
                              • told to meet targets and are worried about some other job/task
                              • they are uninspired
                              • they are patronised and not trusted to do anything but follow very rigid rules
                              In such environments people will follow a small set of procedures rigidly or even slack on some of them if they think they can get away with it.

                              I believe there is a selection effect in retail. Managers tend to overhire on the extroversion end of things and overlook agreeableness, conscientiousness and neuroticism or even skills! Problem solving skills are woefully overlooked vs someone who can smile a lot. There's a lot of stuff like people saying these skills are 'natural' or people 'have to have the will to work for us'. What these really bad managers are really saying is they cannot be arsed to train anyone and want 'oven ready' candidates who will be parachuted in, do everything they say without question and be given minimal training. This model is complete fantasy land, what happens (and I've seen this) is that after 3-6 months these people get bored and motivation drops or they move on if they are any good despite the inadequacies of management. If as is common in retail environments these people have been lied to about promotional opportunities and training, these people will become very resentful. Imagine for a second if there was a parallel world where most pre-reg pharmacists did the year, were promised the earth and then the majority were told sorry we can't be arsed we're not signing you off and you're not becoming a pharmacist. Then when some pharmacists were needed there was a scramble and a lot of shouting and signing a few people off. Or if they said well you can do the pharmacists job, but we aren't signing you off and you'll get paid minimum wage.

                              The other thing about retail management is it rarely does anything to kick the bad habits, it just goes for the low hanging fruit, the ones that can be sacked easily due to sickness or the ones that won't stick up for themselves and maybe could improve a bit but are pretty average. People are left for years and years without some of the bad habits going.

                              On the motivation side of things, retail environments often have very bland, artificial and corporate visions. Usually it is only management repeating the mantras and vision that appear to believe this stuff, with maybe a small band of believers maybe 10-20%.

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