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  • Saturation ?

    Has anyone else read the recent article in the pj in relation to employment prospects etc.

    What is everyones take, I personally feel the market WON'T become saturated as it seems a lot of pharmacists are heading out due to lack of satisfaction.
    3rd yr pharmacy student - bath

  • #2
    Re: Saturation ?

    Originally posted by Asterix View Post
    Has anyone else read the recent article in the pj in relation to employment prospects etc.
    Apparently not. I haven't, either
    ....just my opinion

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    • #3
      Re: Saturation ?

      I have decided to keep going for another year, but al lot of elderly pharmacists are deciding to quit at the end of December.
      johnep

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      • #4
        Re: Saturation ?

        And I've decided to go part time - she who has to be obeyed wouldn't let me stop

        Jeff

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        • #5
          Re: Saturation ?

          I worked all day yesterday, had trouble getting up the stairs for a coffee.
          Also climbing the drawers to get top items. Decided that a full day now beginning to get beyond me until have hip done and will concentrate on Saturday mornings and Sunday rota, working the rota in Suffolk today.

          that is the beauty of Pharmacy, you can virtually fix your own hours to suit.
          johnep

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          • #6
            Re: Saturation ?

            If saturation comes, which I doubt, it will be to do with the economic situation in the country. Hospital posts, PCT posts as well as manager positions are vacant. We are some way off saturation. However I can see posts being cut, particularly within the NHS as the government cuts costs to address the huge loans it has taken out to bail out the banks.

            That will be the case for all professions etc. I am getting a bit fed up with people saying that pharmacy is being hit harder than anyone and that there is a struggle to get employment.
            http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

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            • #7
              Re: Saturation ?

              Originally posted by Tony Schofield View Post
              If saturation comes, which I doubt, it will be to do with the economic situation in the country. Hospital posts, PCT posts as well as manager positions are vacant. We are some way off saturation. However I can see posts being cut, particularly within the NHS as the government cuts costs to address the huge loans it has taken out to bail out the banks.

              That will be the case for all professions etc. I am getting a bit fed up with people saying that pharmacy is being hit harder than anyone and that there is a struggle to get employment.
              Yeah I was reading in the pj that many band 7 posts are being unfilled. I don't see how the pharmacy market will suddenly become saturated soon.
              3rd yr pharmacy student - bath

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              • #8
                Re: Saturation ?

                i believe that the article in the PJ is ignoring the contribution of 'locums and par-timers'. an unfilled post were defined as a post with no PERMANENT occupier( please correct me if i am wrong), which is simply a pharmacy run by locums, but due to high cost for employers, the post would still be considered unoccupied and advertised.

                that's how all the current employment surveys underestimate the current supply of pharmacists present, as they simply do not calculate the total numbers of hours a PHARMACIST is required to be on site ( in case of community pharmacy 10400 pharmacy x total opening hours per year).

                i still believe that the market is already saturated, but that's just me and everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

                however correct me if i missed something in the PJ articles....
                Last edited by Rafael; 22, December 2008, 09:49 PM.
                [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                [/COLOR]

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                • #9
                  Re: Saturation ?

                  Originally posted by Raoul View Post
                  i believe that the article in the PJ is ignoring the contribution of 'locums and par-timers'. unfilled posts were defined as a post with no PERMANENT occupier( please correct me if i am wrong), which could simplya pharmacy run by locums, but due to high cost for employers, the post would still be considered unoccupied and adertised.

                  that's how all the current employment researchs underestimate the current supply of pharmacists present, as they simply do not calculate the total numbers of hours a PHARMACIST is required to be on site ( in case of community pharmacy 10400 pharmacy x total opening hours per year).

                  i still believe that the market is already saturated
                  , but that's just me and everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

                  however correct me if i missed something in the PJ articles....
                  how have you concluded that, without knowing the number of graduates being produced per year.
                  3rd yr pharmacy student - bath

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                  • #10
                    Re: Saturation ?

                    Originally posted by Asterix View Post
                    how have you concluded that, without knowing the number of graduates being produced per year.
                    1- i do know the number of pharmacists registering every year, which is more relevant that the number of graduates, but still does not give the full picture. if you are wondering check the RPSGB, it is 1675 in july + 280 in november, so close to 2000.

                    there are much more factors to consider, which the paper did not discuss for both demand and supply.

                    demand:
                    1- more women joining the profession, maternity leave creates a demand
                    2- people going on retirement
                    3- shifting from full time to part time
                    4- aging of society means more scripts/year
                    5- the opening of 100 hours pharmacies and supermarket pharmacies (means 2-3 shifts are required/ day)
                    6- pharmacists going back to their country of origin/anywhere in Europe


                    supply:
                    1- the opening of more schools of pharmacy, increase the intake of students, more graduates
                    2- increasing in #of pharmacists registering/year, around 2000 this year
                    3- influx of pharmacists from Europe ( some might argue the influx in diminishing as they are going home with the current financial system)
                    4- influx of foreign pharmacists
                    5- NHS pharmacists are less likely to go on retirement the coming 2 years, as currently their pensions are worth nothing.
                    6- availability of better health services compared to 10 years ago means pharmacists can practice when they are in their 70s.

                    again the major factor is the # of pharmacists registering every year.

                    locums are the mirror to reflect the current demand vs supply. so they can always keep us informed.
                    again as i said, it is more of a personal feeling for me, i hope the future proves me wrong.......
                    [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                    [/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Saturation ?

                      There are more locums than ever before, probably because those that favour their indpendence choose this route rather than trying to outbid a multiple to buy a pharmacy. However, there must be a record number of unfilled posts, particularly management of community pharmacies.

                      I am sorry Raoul but you are talking things down from a position of ignorance. You are not currently in a job seeking position. When you are and you can't get a job anywhere I will believe the stuff about saturation.

                      The market for pharmacists is no where near saturation.
                      http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Saturation ?

                        Originally posted by Tony Schofield View Post

                        I am sorry Raoul but you are talking things down from a position of ignorance. You are not currently in a job seeking position. When you are and you can't get a job anywhere I will believe the stuff about saturation.

                        The market for pharmacists is no where near saturation.
                        if you say so...
                        however i have the right to believe in whatever i want as far as i am not forcing my opinion on anyone else.

                        the reason there will always be management positions is simple, in a normal condition, an employer would like to hire a pharmacist manager as he/she cost less than hiring a locum + a store manager. the fact that there are plenty of management roles does not reflect in a way the under/saturation of the market, because as i mentioned before the locums currently working in these advertised posts will not make the company take the advertised post off the advertising board.
                        however i do accept the fact that i might be 'ignorant' and you as an employer have a better view of the current market situation,
                        Last edited by Rafael; 22, December 2008, 09:32 PM.
                        [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                        [/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Saturation ?

                          I am not using the term "ignorance" perjoratively. You are a student and have never applied for a job as a pharmacist. What you believe you have formulated from second hand information including that posted here. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and yes there are many opinions submitted here (and elsewhere) which will inform your own view. However, you cannot comment on saturation until you have applied for jobs and been unable to secure them.

                          That situation is some way off and I don't accept your hypothesis about locums taking up "the slack". Until the advertised positions dry up the market is far from saturated. Locum cover is a poor substitute for permanent cover believe me.

                          I guarantee that salaries will not increase next year but that is not to do with saturation. I guarantee that community pharmacies will be paid less in real terms next year compared to last year as the public purse, stretched by massive borrowing to bail out the banks and reduced tax receipts as unemployment rises, will not afford it. This will impact on salaries significantly more than a perceived saturation.

                          Please don't think I am being offensive in saying that you are ignorant of what actually is going on. I am as ignorant of what is going on in student land (despite my daughter being an undergraduate!).

                          Friends?
                          http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Saturation ?

                            Originally posted by Tony Schofield View Post

                            Friends?
                            sure i do agree on most of the points you raised, but not all :P
                            [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                            [/COLOR]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Saturation ?

                              Originally posted by Tony Schofield View Post
                              There are more locums than ever before, probably because those that favour their indpendence choose this route rather than trying to outbid a multiple to buy a pharmacy. However, there must be a record number of unfilled posts, particularly management of community pharmacies.

                              I am sorry Raoul but you are talking things down from a position of ignorance. You are not currently in a job seeking position. When you are and you can't get a job anywhere I will believe the stuff about saturation.

                              The market for pharmacists is no where near saturation.
                              How about saturation point for jobs worth doing that come with the necessary support from head office to do them.

                              How many applicants did you have for a job that, I suspect, met those rather modest criteria?

                              Or rather how many suitable applicants did you turn down?

                              Jeff

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