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  • Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

    By the PDA:

    Important decision on Responsible Pharmacist (RP)
    05-DEC-08

    The PDA has been invited to be a member of a steering group which will determine the regulations that will operate with regards to the new Responsible Pharmacist provisions. Despite the fact that the PDA has many very serious concerns about the overall thrust of what is being proposed, we consider that we must nevertheless attend these meetings - because it may be possible to improve certain operational aspects to the benefit of employee and locum pharmacists and also for the benefit of public safety.

    Two hour absence
    One concept that has been delivered by the Department of Health is that the Responsible pharmacist will be allowed to be absent from the pharmacy for up to two hours during the day (excluding rest breaks). This will leave the pharmacy operating in the absence of a pharmacist, but the RP will still be responsible for what happens during this absence. This is a concept that in principle the PDA does not support.

    The PDA's position
    As a safeguard, we are proposing that the decision to be absent can only be made by the pharmacist personally and only then with an accompanying professional justification e.g. making an emergency visit to a residential home to sort out a medication problem.

    We have strongly argued that in the event that a pharmacist is absent in such circumstances, then a record should be made as to the reasons why such an absence took place.

    The Employer representatives position
    However, representatives of employer organisations are arguing that the decision for the pharmacist to be absent will be a commercial one; the implication being that it will be decided by the employer/business and not by the pharmacist. They are arguing therefore that no such record should be made.

    We need your contribution,
    The employers are claiming that they have consulted with a handful of large employers and that no such record should be kept.

    The PDA would very much like to say that we have consulted with many thousands of our members and be able to put across your views - which we hope will be that it will be the RP who will decide on any absence based on professional and not on commercial reasoning and that a professional record should be kept. Such a regulation will help to ensure that the two hour absence proposal cannot be abused by employers for commercial gain.

    Please complete the survey on the PDA website.

    (ramroum wrote: every pharmacist should register with the PDA as they are our defending association.)

  • #2
    Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

    I just went to the site to do the survey but apparently the meeting with the committee was yesterday - d'oh!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

      You still can do the survey (4 easy questions) as the results will be published after 12-DEC-08.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

        Are people not delighted that the PDA is involved in such discussions? The Responsible Pharmacist concept is just what is required to transform the practice of pharmacy for the better. The caveats were how the regulations would be interpreted. Employed and locum pharmacists had real fears which will now be taken seriously at the highest levels.

        Rejoice!
        http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

          I don't seem to understand:
          Why would employers ask pharmacists to be away from their pharmacy for a couple of hours? What commercial gain is there for them? Are pharmacists still being paid for these 2 hours while away and being responsible? Who will clinically check prescriptions or supervise P meds being sold?

          I don't believe that the society would allow patients' safety to be jeopardised for commercial reasons!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

            It is for the purpose of doing clinical roles outside of the pharmacy eg MURs at a patient's home. I myself do detoxes for drugs and alcohol at a rehab unit.

            Why are patients at risk? The responsible pharmacists will dictate the terms and conditions under which medicines can be supplied in his/her absence. His/her stipulation may well be that NOTHING is supplied if insufficient confidence in support staff exists.

            This is not new Ramroun there are many threads on the subject.
            http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

              Originally posted by ramroum View Post
              I don't seem to understand:
              Why would employers ask pharmacists to be away from their pharmacy for a couple of hours?
              Practice meeting at GP surgery?

              What commercial gain is there for them?
              Better communication with the surgery - better networking.

              Are pharmacists still being paid for these 2 hours while away and being responsible?
              I'd hope so.

              Who will clinically check prescriptions or supervise P meds being sold?
              At the discretion of the responsible pharmacist - do you really need to perform clinical checks on dressings, gluten free foods, items awaiting collection, repeated items?

              I don't believe that the society would allow patients' safety to be jeopardised for commercial reasons!!
              I don't believe that patient safety should be compromised by an inability to delegate appropriately - a couple of hours at a practice meeting can allow the better management of a change in prescribing/dispensing. e.g. a switch to cfc free belometasone inhalers or how to deal with the warfarin checks on home delivery patients or to discuss the possible provision of CBT for patients on both antidepressants and NSAIDs.

              Jeff

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                Thanks for the replies.
                This meeting should be done when a locum is covering the main pharmacist.

                A hospital doctor gets a CME session (about 3:30 h) each week for study regardless of being junior or experienced, therefore pharmacists should be asking for similar right-paid weekly study time- where they can learn about the above mentioned issues or meet with GPs...etc. while covered by locums.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                  what a shame, we live in the real world where employees would not get 3.5 hours/week PAID leave to train....
                  [COLOR=Olive]xxxx They tried to break my back, but i survived. whatever doesn't kill you, will only makes you stronger xxxx
                  [/COLOR]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                    Originally posted by ramroum View Post
                    Thanks for the replies.
                    This meeting should be done when a locum is covering the main pharmacist.
                    Yeah - like we're all rushing to do a 2 hour locums.
                    The practice meeting means that the surgery is closed - so very few acute scripts will appear that need doing urgently - the majority will be repeats - which I would - in some pharmacies - depending on the staff - be happy to delegate - while retaining responsibility for outcomes. In other pharmacies I might not be prepared to do so.

                    I don't believe that any pharmacist should be forced to be absent from an open pharmacy - but believe that pharmacists should be allowed the ability to delegate if they are willing to take responsibility for doing so.

                    A hospital doctor gets a CME session (about 3:30 h) each week for study regardless of being junior or experienced, therefore pharmacists should be asking for similar right-paid weekly study time- where they can learn about the above mentioned issues or meet with GPs...etc. while covered by locums.
                    And GP surgeries get to close for training - it would be nice if pharmacies were also allowed to. Best I've managed was permission to close half an hour early to get to a PCT run training evening.

                    Jeff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                      Have often seen notice 'surgery closed for staff training'.
                      johnep

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                        Precisely... "England v New Zealand" or "Cheltenham Gold Cup" curiously often coincides with training day. Can't complain though..done it myself..
                        Don't Stop Believing

                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=rnT7nYbCSvM

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                          Or if it's something unplanned a mercury spill is good for an afternoon off.

                          Jeff

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                            I once got an unexpected afternoon off in a pharmacy in Scotland. A firm of contractors arrived to demolish it three days early, and promptly did!..it was one of the last shops left in an old housing scheme..No stock and no customers.. Didn't inform management..myself and the staff went out to celebrate..
                            Don't Stop Believing

                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=rnT7nYbCSvM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Responsible Pharmacist (RP)

                              Originally posted by DavidS View Post
                              Look, Jaymags. I'm not knocking dispensing assistants here - where would we be without you. I've often wondered how on earth you cope with the jobs that you do on the pay that youu get. It must be the status!

                              What this is about is the responsibility. Some of your colleagues do not feel any sense of responsibility for their own self-improvement, or for the errors they make.

                              The same is also true of some pharmacists, but the difference is that I will not be held responsible for the mistakes of another pharmacist (in theory, although actually it has been tried, but that's another story), yet I am held responsible for the mistakes of technicians and other staff. I have had staff give stuff out without it being checked, not relay to the patient what I have asked to be relayed, and interactions that the computer has flagged up suppressed without being told.

                              Soon, it is proposed, and as Fleegle says, I will be held responsible for mistakes that happen when I am not even in the pharmacy. This is just not acceptable. And yet, despite my mentioning it on this forum once before, there has been no suggestion in high places that either there be a concurrent move to create the post of The Responsible Technician with their own insurance, etc., who would take responsibility when the RP is absent, or even that the pharmacist's criminal liability for dispensing (etc) errors made and given out when the RP is absent be modified.

                              I'm afraid that I think the best solution for us locums may be to give up our self-employed status, but I'd like other's views on that. Perhaps in another part of this forum. Infact, I'll sort that now.

                              Until the responsible technician becomes a reality, the Conscientious Tecnician is very much valued.
                              Quoted form a post I made in another part of the forum
                              Comments?
                              ....just my opinion

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