NHS wastage

[johnep]

Our local drug agency offers addicts 'pick and mix' where they have the choice of various brands of syringes. Recently, one addict complained that he did not like the syringes in the 1ml packs (Terumo) and wanted B-D instead.

He thought we could reissue the syringes. The assistant put them in the doop bin explaining that nothing returned to the pharmacy could be reused, and gave him 10 B-D syringes. The others are now wasted.

Naturally, our local PCT are vastly overspent.

Pts on the repeat scheme sometimes say that they do not want all of the items, but others just gaily carry on having them all and finally they are returned unused in carrier bags.

Trays are also returned with unused pts, all going to waste.

Of course the PCT refuses any drug not specified by NICE, in an effort to save money.

johnep

[SolomonQ]

Re: NHS wastage

so whats new?? , maybe a 50p per item fee for exempt people would put a stop to all this waste.

[the old merlin]

Re: NHS wastage

Our local drug agency offers addicts 'pick and mix' where they have the choice of various brands of syringes. Recently, one addict complained that he did not like the syringes in the 1ml packs (Terumo) and wanted B-D instead.

He thought we could reissue the syringes. The assistant put them in the doop bin explaining that nothing returned to the pharmacy could be reused, and gave him 10 B-D syringes. The others are now wasted.

Naturally, our local PCT are vastly overspent.

Pts on the repeat scheme sometimes say that they do not want all of the items, but others just gaily carry on having them all and finally they are returned unused in carrier bags.

Trays are also returned with unused pts, all going to waste.

Of course the PCT refuses any drug not specified by NICE, in an effort to save money.

johnep

OK, I'll rise to it.

Why did the assistant just not tell the addict to get s*****d? Those would have been my instructions as an organiser of the PBNEX scheme. Put up with them this time, maybe it'll be different next!

Next, I used to have a problem with irresponsible locums refusing to document large quantities of returns, especially of recently issued medicines.

Same with trays being returned unused. Pharmacists just counting up the Rx numbers, ignoring their moral responsibilities as taxpayers.

You want to wind me up, follow that!

[Rafael]

Re: NHS wastage

i did not know that patients returned medicines should be documented!
i am aware that it is a good practice to document patients returned CDs, but it is not a legal requirement.
Enlighten me pharmacists

[Rafael]

Re: NHS wastage

so whats new?? , maybe a 50p per item fee for exempt people would put a stop to all this waste.

what about the elderly who are on 10+ items/month, paid taxes for 40 years, and are not working anymore.

but i do agree with you that the current system is abused.......... not sure how it can be improve.

[Jen the 3rd]

Re: NHS wastage

so whats new?? , maybe a 50p per item fee for exempt people would put a stop to all this waste.

Problem with that is it starts at 50p, then goes to £1, and 3 years later its back to £7.10 once the giovernment have won another general election. Dont you realise thats how prescription charges started in the first place?

[Pharmanaut]

Re: NHS wastage

Problem with that is it starts at 50p, then goes to £1, and 3 years later its back to £7.10 once the giovernment have won another general election. Dont you realise thats how prescription charges started in the first place?

And don't forget that Wales are NIL and Scotland are following.
England will?
You must be joking.

[SolomonQ]

Re: NHS wastage

what about the elderly who are on 10+ items/month, paid taxes for 40 years, and are not working anymore.

yeah 40 years, but for those 40 years it wasnt as if they werent using any of the services was it. With the growing elderly population the NHS would save heck of alot of medicines if such a charge was imposed.

Problem with that is it starts at 50p, then goes to £1, and 3 years later its back to £7.10 once the giovernment have won another general election. Dont you realise thats how prescription charges started in the first place?

mechanisms could be put in place which would stop that from happening. I don't find the £7.10 charge unfair, it's just the way it's done i.e. only people who pay are those who work, these people already pay NI which amounts to atleast £30 per week, (I was paying £45 in my pre-reg). Also the same category of people in Wales wouldn't pay.

And don't forget that Wales are NIL and Scotland are following.
England will?
You must be joking.

i'm on about the charges for people are are normally exempt e.g. over 60s, diabetics, I wouldn't apply them to children though.

[Jen the 3rd]

Re: NHS wastage

Which mechanism stops inflation? If you know this the Bank of England needs you right now!

[SolomonQ]

Re: NHS wastage

if it's inflation you're talking about, in this case the price goes up but the real cost is the same, as long as the pay etc.. increase at the same rate.

[Jen the 3rd]

Re: NHS wastage

Yeah they've been using that excuse for years. Once a charge goes up its irreversible. They can only increase, which is what has happenned with Rx charges. When I qualified they were £4.80.

[SolomonQ]

Re: NHS wastage

either way, the only way to avoid wastage is to make people think about whether they needed all the medicines on the repeat slip e.g. co-codamol, all these emollients which are really expensive, nebuliser solutions etc etc... to keep it down one way could be to make it 5-10% of the normal fee, so then it'll only go up with the Rx fee every april. and there could be a max charge of one Rx fee.

Also remember most of these repeat meds cost less than a pound per pack anyway so the NHS would reduce the drug costs dramatically.

[Jeff]

Re: NHS wastage

Next, I used to have a problem with irresponsible locums refusing to document large quantities of returns, especially of recently issued medicines.

The big returns are usually those of the recently deceased.
We do look at returns - but it's not altruistic - over ordering could a sign of dementia - and it's a market I'm looking to expand.
We are asking patients to check their medicines before leaving the shop - so anything that they don't want can be put back on the shelf and crossed off the script. (That way confidentiality is their own problem - we also try to pack with the side that says what the drug is facing up to make the process easier.)

Same with trays being returned unused.

Disposable trays - they aren't returned so don't know if they are used or not.
We have got as far as being aware of the problem - but I'm waiting for the staff to propose solutions (it gives them ownership of the idea which is the way to make it work if I'm only in 2 days a week and there is no real manager.)

We're good on missed collections though ;-)

Pharmacists just counting up the Rx numbers, ignoring their moral responsibilities as taxpayers.

The moral responsibility of a taxpayer is to make enough profit to pay tax and then to arrange their affairs to pay as little as possible.

I have no intention of choosing the cheapest supplier of specials - it's the one that's the most profitable - but I am up-front with the prescribers about it.

Jeff

[shan]

Re: NHS wastage

what about the elderly who are on 10+ items/month, paid taxes for 40 years, and are not working anymore.

but i do agree with you that the current system is abused.......... not sure how it can be improve.

I was told by a Pharmacist, who has 25 years of experience in this field, that a major outcome of MUR's is reducing wastage of medicines by stopping the so called un-neccessary drugs.

Please clarify if wrong.

Shan

[Titch]

Re: NHS wastage

I was told by a Pharmacist, who has 25 years of experience in this field, that a major outcome of MUR's is reducing wastage of medicines by stopping the so called un-neccessary drugs.

Please clarify if wrong.

Shan

That is a potential outcome for MURs and no doubt what was intended when they were introduced.

In reality they are often carried out just to meet a target and the patient who really would benefit from a MUR does not get one because they are "more complicated" and will take longer.

I spent a large part of my week working in GP surgeries and all MURs sent in end up in my post tray (something to do with the word pharmacy means it must be for me...!) The quality often leaves a lot to be desired but what should we expect when the system is set up so that there is no monitoring of the MUR process.

I'm not suggesting a draconian approach but when I receive a list of 30-40 patients that have had a MUR in the last month (this is the only notification I get if no action is needed) and all of them are on 1 item, you have to wonder... like I said not blaming the pharmacists for doing it, blaming the system for making them able to do it.