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Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

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  • Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

    check out the boxout with Peter Holden's comments on pharmacists offering flu vaccination...

    Does it pay to go private? - Chemist + Druggist

    silly bugger! As if he'll give vaccinations out himself anymore - not when he has a small army of trained practice nurses, health visitors etc to do it for him. All he's bothered about is someone competing with him. With folk like that running around in the BMA it's no wonder we struggle to put our cases forward to official bodies.

    Another fine example of a GP representative talking firmly out of their posterior.
    “It's not worth doing something unless you were doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing.”

    Terry Pratchett

  • #2
    Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

    like i've said before, with the new pharmacy contract and with all these enhanced services and things such as independent prescribing etc.., GPs see pharmacists and pharmacies as competition not as partners in the provision of healthcare to patients.

    If doctors themselves cannot work together effectively in different sectors (e.g. GPs, Consultants, Hospital doctors) how can the communication between pharmacists and GPs have any chance.

    The truth is GPs are there for decades at thr same practice, at the same practice but it would be lucky if the pharmacists is at the same pharmacy for more than say 3 years. even if the pharmacy is next to the doctors, the pharmacist cant really dwelve outside the pharmacy, and the doctors dont have time anyway and prefer not to talk about their treatment of patients with anyone who might question their judgement.
    We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams and God damn we are that good

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

      Originally posted by SolomonQ View Post
      The truth is GPs are there for decades at thr same practice, at the same practice but it would be lucky if the pharmacists is at the same pharmacy for more than say 3 years. even if the pharmacy is next to the doctors, the pharmacist cant really dwelve outside the pharmacy, and the doctors dont have time anyway and prefer not to talk about their treatment of patients with anyone who might question their judgement.
      That's hitting the nail on the head. Pharmacies need permanent staff to build relationships with everyone involved in local healthcare.
      How would we feel if our local GP was run entirely on locums - would we like that as patients?
      47 BC : Julius Cesar : Veni Vidi Vici : I came, I saw I conquered.
      2018 AD : Modern Man : I shopped, I clicked, I collected.
      How times change.

      If you find you have read something that has upset or offended you an anyway please unread it at once.

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      • #4
        Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

        would we like that as patients?
        or as pharmacists, imagine having to try to get hold of locum doctors to correct any mistakes they've made.

        permanent staffing could only be achieved with improving working standards etc... and full company support for the pharmacist, respecting their status as a HCP rather than just another worker who can be easily replaced.
        We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams and God damn we are that good

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

          Originally posted by SolomonQ View Post
          like i've said before, with the new pharmacy contract and with all these enhanced services and things such as independent prescribing etc.., GPs see pharmacists and pharmacies as competition not as partners in the provision of healthcare to patients.

          If doctors themselves cannot work together effectively in different sectors (e.g. GPs, Consultants, Hospital doctors) how can the communication between pharmacists and GPs have any chance.

          The truth is GPs are there for decades at thr same practice, at the same practice but it would be lucky if the pharmacists is at the same pharmacy for more than say 3 years. even if the pharmacy is next to the doctors, the pharmacist cant really dwelve outside the pharmacy, and the doctors dont have time anyway and prefer not to talk about their treatment of patients with anyone who might question their judgement.


          If GPs and pharmacists don't or can't work together how have I managed to form a partnership with two GPs and secure two APMS contracts with the prospect of more?

          GPs and pharmacists have much to gain from working together and I appreciate that young pharmacists have a lot to do to build the trust but many GPs are feeling threatened at the moment. As a consequence, many of them are only too happy to embrace that which pharmacists have to offer to build strategic partnerships which I believe will be the future.

          Think outside the box. Think of what you can do other than dispense. Go to educational meetings or PCT meetings. Build friendships and alliances. It doesn't happen over night but it will if you put some effort in.
          http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

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          • #6
            Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

            let me hazard a guess, are you, Mr TS, by any chance working in a rural/semi-rural area/town, because those are the only places APMS would really apply, so in these places maybe there's only one or maybe a handful of pharmacies and only a couple of GP surgeries atmost, so in this situation the two would HAVE to work together, but maybe this scenario doesnt apply to your situation.

            I think i've read in another post that you're a pharmacy owner, If I was in your positon then maybe i'd think the same and say the same, but the truth of the matter is that if I was in a full time job, as a pharmacist I wouldnt have time to chase up doctors, 'cos i'd be too busy dispensing, not because i like to but because thats what the job entails, I wont get sacked for not initiating all these new services (unless it was in my contract to do so) but if I take 2 minutes longer in dispensing a prescrition and the customer complains then, people on top of me wouldnt be happy,

            even if I do take my own time out trying to set up these services as a manager, then: first of all I wouldn't get paid for it, so i get no real reward for doing all the work, secondly i might not be able to meet stupid branch targets like MUR numbers cos of my time and effort being spent setting up the new service, then i'd be looking for a new job or atleast getting an unpleasant treatment from head office, because they have targets to meet too and my setting up new services doenst help them achieve those and maybe deptives them of a bonus (unless it was orders from head office).

            now I find independent pharmacys in the best position to provide all these new services, even if it's a small chain, the pharmacist manager is bound to know the owner and therefore the pharmacist feels like more than just a number in the organisation, and this benefits their practice. stats show that independents have not taken up these new services as readily as multiples, but I believe that is because in most situations the owner is aware of the workload and therefore understands if other services arent being undertaken, while multiples demand x number of MURs etc... no matter what, although they do help sometimes by providing locum cover, but the stress is still there.

            I've locumed in independents and the relationship Mr TS speaks about is what ive found, GPs freely walk in have a small chat, maybe just a hi or hello nice to meet you etc..., then walk back out again, i've never seen or heard of such a thing in a multiple and i've worked in many multiples that are right next to GP surgeries, and I swear to God i didnt get a glimpse of one Doctor.

            even if people dont read all of the above, the bottom line is that Mr TS should realise he speaks as an Owner pharmacist, but most of the profession is now employed by multiples etc... so we should learn to see things in 3D, i.e. from each different viewpoint, e.g. owner pharmacist, the multiple owners, pharmacist manager in a multiple, p manager in an small independent chain, maybe also a locum pharmacist.

            A franchise model has just entered my head, which would be the best solution to all the problems highlighted above, but am i correct to assume no true pharmacy franchise exists?
            We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams and God damn we are that good

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

              Originally posted by SolomonQ View Post
              but the truth of the matter is that if I was in a full time job, as a pharmacist I wouldnt have time to chase up doctors, 'cos i'd be too busy dispensing, not because i like to but because thats what the job entails, I wont get sacked for not initiating all these new services (unless it was in my contract to do so) but if I take 2 minutes longer in dispensing a prescrition and the customer complains then, people on top of me wouldnt be happy,
              I'm chasing up doctors as a locum - though I'm considering going full time management for the ability to do so properly.
              My pharmacist colleague on codeinefree.me.uk is employed by a large multiple - gets to spend time working at a DAT clinic and is about to start on a prescribing course.

              even if I do take my own time out trying to set up these services as a manager, then: first of all I wouldn't get paid for it, so i get no real reward for doing all the work,
              Tony has suggested that I run with run with an idea without a pharmacy contract - he is probably right right on a financial level.
              I'd rather set it up through someone elses contract - get it working and then let them run with it - while I move on to a new challenge.

              secondly i might not be able to meet stupid branch targets like MUR numbers cos of my time and effort being spent setting up the new service,
              You have to get the dispensing structures and delegation in place first.

              then i'd be looking for a new job or atleast getting an unpleasant treatment from head office, because they have targets to meet too and my setting up new services doenst help them achieve those and maybe deptives them of a bonus (unless it was orders from head office).
              Down to staffing levels, training levels and delegation - without the support neccessary from the head office it can't work - choose your employer - and see what they are willing to commit.

              now I find independent pharmacys in the best position to provide all these new services, even if it's a small chain, the pharmacist manager is bound to know the owner and therefore the pharmacist feels like more than just a number in the organisation, and this benefits their practice.
              Agree

              stats show that independents have not taken up these new services as readily as multiples,
              Still agree
              but I believe that is because in most situations the owner is aware of the workload and therefore understands if other services arent being undertaken,
              Disagree - it's the lack of an infrastructure that allows the paperwork and negotiations to be delegated.

              while multiples demand x number of MURs etc... no matter what, although they do help sometimes by providing locum cover, but the stress is still there.
              Depends on the multiple - the rapid growth of most multiples - the number of new acquisitions and staff changes means that most are still on a learning curve.

              Snip -- GP's coming into pharmacies
              i've never seen or heard of such a thing in a multiple and i've worked in many multiples that are right next to GP surgeries, and I swear to God i didnt get a glimpse of one Doctor.
              Shyness making them avoid occasional locums? The I work regularly - it's not unusual - but perhaps that's why I choose to work at those places.
              Co-operation has to work both ways - one surgery next door to the pharmacy left all its uncollected repeats in the pharmacy every Friday night because the pharmacy was open Saturdays - some patients would pick up their FP10's on a Saturday and then go elsewhere. The surgery would in turn lend the pharmacy an empty consulting room when needed (couldn't be used for MURs - but was useful for real consultations)

              we should learn to see things in 3D, i.e. from each different viewpoint, e.g. owner pharmacist, the multiple owners, pharmacist manager in a multiple, p manager in an small independent chain, maybe also a locum pharmacist.
              Agreed - but what we see depends in part on our own vision of what can be.

              A franchise model has just entered my head, which would be the best solution to all the problems highlighted above, but am i correct to assume no true pharmacy franchise exists?
              I think a few have been tried - but I'm not sure that the numbers truly made sense.

              Jeff

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              • #8
                Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

                Solomon. You assume an awful lot old son. Thanks to Jeff for dissecting your rambling I agree with just about everything he says to you so won't waste time repeating the obvious.

                I do NOT work in a rural/semirural/area/town. I work on Tyneside which had a massive industrial base in shipbuilding and coal mining, became an unemployment blackspot from the 1970's and has dragged itself kicking and screaming into the 21st century reducing unemployment significantly but seems braced for a collapse as the economy is teetering on the brink.

                We have significant drug problems, obesity, type 2 diabetes, cancer and of course more of our people die of CVD than anyone elses and earlier.

                There is a lot of work to do!

                I don't come here to brag. I have significant responsibilities. However, I believe that pharmacy is a good profession with significant opportunity and I keep saying it. You however miss no opportunity to rubbish what I say and use it as a platform to exalt your ego at my expense.

                I really don't know what you hope to gain from this, Lazy nite is "spoken for" and I don't think, from his posting that Ray could possibly be gay so your romantic opportunities on this site are limited. If you wish to be a pharmacy politician you will struggle as you don't use your name to label your contributions.

                Let us get one thing straight. I am a proprietor pharmacist but I wasn't created as one. I have been exactly where you are now. I have struggled with a business during the 1980's and nearly went under in the early 1990's. However I am still there and doing well. No-one has given me a penny. My parents, whilst comfortably off, gave me an education and nothing else. Everything I have is achieved by my own efforts. I post here in an attempt to encourage young pharmacists. I have talked about the opportunities that exist and I believe they do. I don't just talk about APMS as an opportunity I have investigated and persued it. It isn't easy but if it was easy ANYONE could do it. I know it is difficult to find time to build professional relationships but I am posting to say it is worth it. I know you are saddled with debt but so was I! There is light at the end of the tunnel.

                Many people "pm" me to question me about what I say. I am happy to give advice to anyone who requests it. However, I know to some I am an old wind bag. That's ok. But at least these individuals engage in dialogue. You just seek to complain and whinge.

                If the sole outcome of my trying to encourage you is to annoy you I won't come here any more. I have so much more I could do with my time. I was asked by a frequent poster to come here as everyone was so negative about the future but I don't have to.

                Just say the word?
                http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

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                • #9
                  Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

                  I couldn't agree more with Tony (not sure about the sexual references though - maybe I've missed a few posts!)

                  Nobody gives you a pharmacy. You save up a bit, go to a wholesaler for a bit more and then to the bank for the rest. then, you strap yourself in tight and back your own ability to develop the business, staff and most importantly tourself to achieve success. this is not necessarily money - there is a general misconception that proprietors are all rich beytond their wildest dreams. This isn't fair. What about those who have worked for years, only to see the GP surgery moved or some pillock with a 100 hour contract shoved in down the road. This has happened with alarming regularity since 2005. Imagine working for a living and not being able to accurately predict how much you're gonna get paid at the end of the month? The PPD payments have been so unpredictable that last December I made a net loss. That wouldn't happen in many other businesses that trade "normally".

                  I love what I do, but please don't think that things like APMS contracts fall into your hands from nowhere. Relationships are incredibly hard to build, but let the GP see that we are equal partners to be valued and worked with, rather than cupboard dwelling prescription checkers.

                  Feels a bit like Monty Python....

                  "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

                    I really don't know what you hope to gain from this, Lazy nite is "spoken for" and I don't think, from his posting that Ray could possibly be gay so your romantic opportunities on this site are limited. If you wish to be a pharmacy politician you will struggle as you don't use your name to label your contributions.
                    i cant believed Tony posted that, i'l be suffering epilepic attacks now because of this insult to my brain!!!
                    We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams and God damn we are that good

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                    • #11
                      Re: Once again, a GP shoots themself in the foot...

                      http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmbyj0XFUhA

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