Does it get better?

[cheapshots]

Hi, I am new to this site so please accept my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section or even if it is a re-post!

I am a pre-reg student at a London hospital (naming no names!) and to be perfectly honest, I have run out of reasons as to why I should continue..

Work is not what I expected, I spend half my day being used to top up stock and the other half running around the whole place looking for drugs. I have been there nearly two months and I can honestly say I have not learnt one piece of useful information regarding pharmacy. They drown you in endless paperwork and the whole collecting evidence thing...I mean come on! what a waste of time.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful to hospital pharmacists at all but looking into the future, I see the pharmacists, all desperate to get their 'diploma' in the hope of getting out of doing the, shall we say, less enjoyable aspects of pharmacy and ofcourse to jump up a band or two....I cant help but think to myself - have I chosen the right degree?

I like the idea of hospital pharmacy, but I do not like the career progression pathway they force you to go down - this necessity to have this long drawn hospital diploma or remain a band 6 for god knows how long….

Before starting in hospital I was sure that is what I wanted to do, and now, I am not so sure, becoming a locum seems a better option only because it pays well and you are less likely to get bored, but I guess its still early days... are there any other pre-reg's out their who feel the same? or even pharmacists who felt the same I wonder... any advise would be much appreciated!

[johnep]

Re: Does it get better?

I spent a long time dustin shelves, cleaning the lead sink and polishing shop rounds. All this helps to gain familarity with the medicines in use. If you put away something you do not know, look it up in the BNF. Yesterday had Inspra from Pfizer. Never heard of so looked in BNF. Just a very expensive potassium sparing diuretic.
johnep

[paul2008]

Re: Does it get better?

It does get better and believe me you are learning a lot (or you should be)little things such as: where things hide, how things should be done vs how they are done, what medicines are available. It helps if you notice things such as which tablets are scored, what syrups are available etc as this is knowledge you can use later. In my first pre-reg I learnt how to track down errors in CD registers, a dull task but a valuable skill.

As a pharmacist one of your roles is problem solver and without knowledge of all these things (not what you expected the job to be about) you won't be able to do a good job.

It is very difficult especially when you don't know the system and you have to rely on asking the assistants all the time who may see you as an outsider. For a number of reasons I have had to do through this process more than once in different places, it always gets better if you stay cheerful and try hard. One of the joys of working as a locum is being an outsider in every new place and having to quickly get to grips with the system and do routine tasks without upsetting the support staff to the extent they take leave whebn they hear you are coming back.

I think it is a good thing that pharmacists are focused on their diploma's, like everyone else they want to get on in their careers. Hospital has a rather structured career progression compared to the community sector. I personally would recommend getting your diploma as soon as you are allowed because as the supply of pharmacists grows and possibly remote supervision comes in, it is the people with diplomas and other specialist training who will find the good jobs without a problem.

I also suggest that you learn from this frustration, what does it feel like to do the job of an ATO, just for a few months or even a technician, if you understand this you will be better equipped to understand their frustrations and what you as a pharmacist can do to make the pharmacy team run smoothly and effectively.

I hope this helps a bit.

[cheapshots]

Re: Does it get better?

Thanks for replying johnep and paul 2008...

The diploma, to me, seems like a way for the NHS to keep pharmacists on the lowest possible pay for as long as possible (3 years), it just seems unfair you need the diploma, I think experience should count for more.

Im glad I mentioned my frustrations here because you both made valid points, points that I did not really consider, points that have now made me more confused as to what I might do after pre-reg! I realise I still have time to decide, but I like to think things through from as early as possible!

What a dilemma!

* stay in hospital and inevitably obtain the golden diploma - downside is the pay
* hospital/community locum - downside is, as paul2008 said, long-term job security

Any advise? :-)

[johannes]

Re: Does it get better?

What a dilemma!

* stay in hospital and inevitably obtain the golden diploma - downside is the pay
* hospital/community locum - downside is, as paul2008 said, long-term job security

Any advise? :-)

1st do your pre-reg time.
Then you can decide what you want. :-)

[paul2008]

Re: Does it get better?

My advise is to not worry about it for the moment. You attitudes may change over the pre-reg year and as you gain experiance including that from the cross sector placement thinks will be come clearer and you will then be able to decide whether you want a career or just a job.

There are a lot of a lot of complainers especially in the hospital sector and on this forum about how bad things are or unfair, or things were so much better in xyz..... They may have a point, however, try not to focus on the problems but try to stay positive and lean from your own experiance and your own observations how things really are from your point of view and see where that can get you.

Innovaters are people who see things differently and find new ways of doing things , as pharmacy changes this will become more and more important. Too often people miss opportunities because they beilieve the pessimistic views of the people around them.

The diploma may be about experiance, I don't know and am not really interestted today as I have enough to worry about today without worrying about where I'll land next year or what I'll be doing there.

[cheapshots]

Re: Does it get better?

Hey johannes......Im jumping the gun eh?! I know your right, I just thought I might get peoples opinions on the matter….. to put things into perspective … no time like the present!

Questions like what career path did you take and knowing what you know now, would you do things differently?

I realise I might be asking for too much so I wont be offended if no one replies !

Thanks :-)

[Lazy Nite]

Re: Does it get better?

Hey Cheapshots

You’ve had some very good comments from John and Paul.

I’m Lazy Nite – I was a pre-reg last year in hospital, completed one year locuming in community after qualifying and now I’ve gone back into hospital to start the clinical diploma.

It’s really good that you’ve decided to think about your future career during pre-reg. it’s really important to have something secured before you finish your pre-reg…..it adds to your confidence.

Which area of London is your hospital?? (I work in London too)

Many ppl I know try really hard to get a pre-reg or a qualified post job in a London hospital. They are very good for pre-reg training. London is a very competitive place and you should be very proud of yourself….!

I’ve got a few tips for you – how to make the most of your hospital pre-reg yr:

1. Spend more time with senior staff – they have a big impact on you
2. Contribute more to staff meetings – i.e how to improve procedures etc
3. Discuss your concerns with your pre-reg tutor (if they are easy to talk to)
4. You should develop a ‘Pharmacy Network’…very important. Get to know other pre-regs, pharmacist etc so that when you qualify you can ask for help if needed.
5. Always smile - have fun, join the gym, take part in social events.
6. Pre-reg year is all about being pro-active. You must find time to read your BNF (as all the answers are in the BNF), look at the CPPE website. Do all you can, so that at the end of the yr you will feel you can work confidently as a good pharmacist.
7. Ask intelligent questions – show your enthusiasm
8. I agree with Paul – hospital has structured career progression. Band 6 can last as long as you want it to; it’s up to you to apply for a band 7 posts. I know pharmacists who have been band 6 for 2 yrs, then moved on to a band 7 while still completing the diploma. Life is about progression.
9. Topping up stock/ looking for drugs??? You will often do that in the first few months to allow you to know where everything is. Then you can do the more interesting things like – answering queries, preparing TPN bags, counseling and checking – you will get feedback when someone second checks your work.
10. You could try locuming for a while after you qualify just to get a feel for it. Register with some locum agencies once you pass the exam.

All the best

[Steve G]

Re: Does it get better?

You don't have to be a hospital pharmacist to get a clinical diploma - you can do it in community pharmacy and the future direction for community is away from supply and towards cognitive services.

[Lazy Nite]

Re: Does it get better?

Steve G

I realise you don’t have to be a hospital pharmacist to complete a clinical diploma. I like the hospital environment as a pre-reg and that’s why I went back into this sector.

I like community very much too….but as a locum I didn’t get many chances to ‘Network’ with other pharmacists.

You sound very passionate about community.

[johannes]

Re: Does it get better?

Well, your'e nearly two month there.
To get a taste of community pharm you can do 6 month of the year there?

[cheapshots]

Re: Does it get better?

Hey Lazy,

Thanks for taking the time to write those tips, its much appreciated

Believe it or not, I have tried to act on all those points you mentioned, I really am trying to be more active/involved and liven everyone up, BUT....and please don't take this the wrong way, our pharmacy department compromises of 90% women and sometimes they can be very hard to work with! I guess I need to be abit more patient....

I would rather not say which area of London I’m working in...only because I would feel more comfortable being brutally honest about pharmacy!

I do not want to be another statistic on here so, and I’m sure you will be happy to know, I will stop moaning about hospital pharmacy!! (for now)

One more thing lazy, how was locuming? do you mind me asking why you decided to locum in the first place and why you decided to leave after 1 year?

If anything is abit too personal then by all means, do not answer.

Thanks :-)

[cheapshots]

Re: Does it get better?

Well, your'e nearly two month there.
To get a taste of community pharm you can do 6 month of the year there?

heheh....i get 2 weeks in a community pharmacy....maybe you can talk round my tutor into letting me go for 2 months?

[Lazy Nite]

Re: Does it get better?

The women are difficult to work with? But you’re a guy, so they should be deeply in love with you. Anyways, its still early days for you…..

I’ve heard the male pre-regs get more attention from the female staff and the poor female pre-regs seem to clash more with the senior female staff.

Locuming is tricky to start of with, because of the different systems in place….but it does teach you a lot. I chose to locum in my 1st year of qualifying because it offered flexibility and I was able to take mini-holidays whenever I wanted. It also gave me time to think about what company/jobs/courses I really wanted to do.

I did a lot of research in this year.

[Steve G]

Re: Does it get better?

Steve G

I realise you don’t have to be a hospital pharmacist to complete a clinical diploma. I like the hospital environment as a pre-reg and that’s why I went back into this sector.

I like community very much too….but as a locum I didn’t get many chances to ‘Network’ with other pharmacists.

You sound very passionate about community.

Many people don't realise it though, and there seems to be a perception that you can only do clinical work in hospital. I had a hospital pre-reg with me for a two week cross sector placement a couple of weeks ago. At the end of her placement she said I had completely changed her view of community pharmacy.

I am passionate about community pharmacy and I really enjoy it. I like seeing the same patients from month to month, and sorting out any problems they have with their medicines.