what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

[meaniebeanie]

im currently applying for a pre-reg place in 2009 and there's this one ind ive applied to and the pharm told me that the hours are gna be 9-7 mon-fri, thats quite a bit, 50hrs in total is this fair? should i make it clear to him that this should include 1hr study and 1hr lunch?
also just wondering what is roughly a fair minimum salary for working in an independent pharmacy, is 16,000 a fair amount but i know that as part of the pre-reg training all pharmacies get a 16,500 grant from the RPSGB?

[meaniebeanie]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

also there was this one interview that i went to and the salary was like
14,000, i swear thats exploitation?! and its also the first year they are offering the training.

[Rafael]

Re: question about pre-reg salary and working hours? pls help

im currently applying for a pre-reg place in 2009 and there's this one ind ive applied to and the pharm told me that the hours are gna be 9-7 mon-fri, thats quite a bit, 50hrs in total is this fair? should i make it clear to him that this should include 1hr study and 1hr lunch?
also just wondering what is roughly a fair minimum salary for working in an independent pharmacy, is 16,000 a fair amount but i know that as part of the pre-reg training all pharmacies get a 16,500 grant from the RPSGB?

that's a long time to stay in the pharmacy!
typical conditions would be:
40 hours/ week
weekday, no weekends( unless you want)
30 mins study time/ day or a total of 3 hours ONCE weekly....
16500-18500 pay scale
5-8 days study leave before exams
4 weeks holiday
monthly practical days at the head office with other pre-reg students( they should pay for your transportation)

this is a typical offer from pharmacy chains ad large independents. this is the best you can get

[Fleegle]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

Yes..as far as your pre-reg is concerned, Ray is absolutely right.

Once you qualify, a 50 hour week isn't uncommon, but only if you choose to work these hours, and the package is attractive enough to merit that.

50 hours per week as a pre-reg should never be expected..look elsewhere, as I can assure you that you would probably find you were being used as a year's free labour by that particular establishment...probably wouldn't get much tutorial help either..Just one thing..I assume the 9-7 hours quoted did include a lunch hour, reducing work time to 45 hours...otherwise this one is way off the scale of legal!

[Steve G]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

Even 45 hours a week would be too much for a pre-reg. There are things to study at home, and a 45 hour week doesn't leave you much free time, especially if you add in travelling time. My pre-reg does 37 hours a week at branch level and has 3 hours study time at home - these are the sort of hours you should be doing as a pre-reg.

[meaniebeanie]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

once you start ur pre-reg and if you arent happy with the working hours can you negotiate with ur tutor and change them? does this reduce your salary?

[Pharmabob]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

I have recruited for next year and will be paying in the region of £20k. I feel that it is vital that all members of staff are "appropriately" rewarded for their importance to the business. Given that the grant is c£16.5k, even paying £20k gives excellent value for money.

I have a working week of 40 hours for my staff, Monday to Friday 9-6 with an unpaid lunch hour. Other breaks are paid. I also give protected learning time as my experience has found this to be beneficial for both parties. It has been much easier to call upon a pre-reg if they are in the same building, and this leads to issues regaring the importance of training time and can lead to problems when addressing the 13 weekly appraisals.

[Rafael]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

once you start ur pre-reg and if you arent happy with the working hours can you negotiate with ur tutor and change them? does this reduce your salary?

good new meaniebeanie, i hope you still did not sign any pre-reg contract, like myself :P

now you can negotiate your income for the pre-reg year, the government increased the pre-reg grant for pharmacy contractors from 16440 to 18440.
i.e any offer offering less than 18440 is NOT acceptable.

From 1 October 2008, the pre-registration grant will increase by £2000 to £18,440 per year.

For existing pre-registration trainees, contractors are entitled to monthly payments at the old rate for the time a pre-registration trainee was employed before October 2008 and monthly payments at the new rate for the time a pre-registration trainee is employed after October 2008. Payment is made by PCTs in arrears so there is likely to be a lag time before the increased payment rate is seen on a contractor's Schedule of Payments. The lag time is dependent on the PCT's internal payment authorisation processes and can vary from PCT to PCT.

[SolomonQ]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

they'll be students out there still accepting offers for £14k, despite the increase. Has anyone communicated this increase to pharmacy students?

[Tony Schofield]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

The grant from DOH is to provide training for a pre-reg not to pay them a salary. Increased grant assistance recognises the work required in supporting a student, who is a super numary not a regular member of staff.

Remember many small independents will not be growing a pharmacist to work for them on qualifying, they are enabling a student to qualify as a pharmacist and work elsewhere so that they can post on here moaning about locum rates!!

However, I couldn't justify paying a pre-reg, who has to eat etc, less than an ACT so would feel that £20000 was a reasonable salary as well as most of what Ray quoted. I wouldn't necessarily pay travelling expenses for a student attending educational sessions including meeting other students......? Does the student not bear some responsibility of their own for completing their training?

I don't do pre-reg training as I don't feel I could devote the time appropriate

[Rafael]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

[QUOTE=Tony Schofield;16413]The grant from DOH is to provide training for a pre-reg not to pay them a salary. Increased grant assistance recognises the work required in supporting a student, who is a super numary not a regular member of staff.

Remember many small independents will not be growing a pharmacist to work for them on qualifying, they are enabling a student to qualify as a pharmacist and work elsewhere so that they can post on here moaning about locum rates!!
True, however day lewis( 170 branches) offered me 16440 when they are trying to reduce their demand on locums, and willing to train a pre-reg to stay with them post qualification. this little amount of money, in an area like london would not interest me specially if i have got some other offers.
i might give them a call and see if they are willing to top up the payment to 18500, as what other companies are currently offering.
However, I couldn't justify paying a pre-reg, who has to eat etc, less than an ACT so would feel that £20000 was a reasonable salary as well as most of what Ray quoted. I wouldn't necessarily pay travelling expenses for a student attending educational sessions including meeting other students......?

most companies are offering less than 20K, as their recruitment for next year pre-reg did not take account the 2K increased grant payed by the government and 80% of students has already accepted their offers post summer placements

Does the student not bear some responsibility of their own for completing their training?
they do, however in the place they are entitled to work at, not at the head office 2 hours from that pharmacy. with monthly meeting, not a lot of students will be willing to pay for transportation to get there every month.
plus, large independents and multiples are happy to pay for travel expenses on training days

[Tony Schofield]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

Thanks for that but I think we are not talking about the same thing. Just because Day Lewis are not Boots, Rowlands or LLoyds doesn't mean they are a small independent. I have one pharmacy and a half share in three others. The area in which they are located is a 10 mile radius. I may invite staff to a central location and put decent refreshments on but I wouldn't be paying travel costs.

The salary really should be independent of the grant which is a payment to train someone. However, as I said an ACT would earn about £20k so a pre-reg should earn at least that.

Maybe I will start offering pre-reg places.

What advantage is a pre-reg to a small pharmacy company that wouldn't necessarily be expected to work for them once qualified?

[Rafael]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

have had some sort of communication from you that I don't understand! Please explain?
to clear it up, i simply meant that paying for transportation to attend monthly training day is common. multiples and LARGE independent are happy to pay for transportation to their head office for training days.
Thanks for that but I think we are not talking about the same thing. Just because Day Lewis are not Boots, Rowlands or LLoyds doesn't mean they are a small independent
yes. i am talking about a different thing! the fact that you are willing to pay 20K for a pre-reg student while some large independents like day lewis, who bought 40 new branches last year from Lloyds, looking to recruite more RELIEF p'cists and cut their dependency on locums (i.e cut the over all of hiring p'cists), are only offering 16440 pounds.




I have one pharmacy and a half share in three others. The area in which they are located is a 10 mile radius. I may invite staff to a central location and put decent refreshments on but I wouldn't be paying travel costs.
i do not expect you to pay for staff transportation, but i do expect multiples and large independents to do as they are willing to recruite some relief p'cists once they are qualified. i.e paydens pharmacy are offering 12 pre-reg to satisfy their needs as a relief p'cists is a locum who cost less money for the company. the same goes for day lewis who offer around 30 pre-reg place..... that's why i used DL as an example


The salary really should be independent of the grant which is a payment to train someone. However, as I said an ACT would earn about £20k so a pre-reg should earn at least that.

well that's from your point of view, as you are not interested in training-to-recruite. other recruitment multiples offer 18500, pay transportation( 12x 20 pounds trip = 240) and RPSGP fees (400 pounds) if you work for them. plus, the tutor pharmacist usually gets some financial benefits for accepting to take a pre-reg student

Maybe I will start offering pre-reg places
it's entirely up to you, but i do not see the need, unless you try to recruite 1-2 relief p'cists and willing to train them 1st.

another thing, some companie make sure to sack a staff member, replace him with pre-reg student. get 18K grant, pay it for the pre-reg. hence, beneft from a 40 hours/week FREE LABOUR! yes believe it or not multiples do it in 10% of their pharmacies offering pre-reg training.... they save around 11K/year/pharmacy ( wage of 1 staff member on 5-6 pounds/hour)

What advantage is a pre-reg to a small pharmacy company that wouldn't necessarily be expected to work for them once qualified?

free labour maybe :P

[paul2008]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

T

Maybe I will start offering pre-reg places.

What advantage is a pre-reg to a small pharmacy company that wouldn't necessarily be expected to work for them once qualified?

If you get the right one, a fresh view on how things are done, with regard to up to date theory and current law. Somebody to do a project that could benefit your business and your patients (depends what you think needs doing) and possibly complete some simple tasks you hadn't got around to doing or delegating.

The creation of a potential locum who knows your staff and your system so you can happily go on a potential holiday.

The satisfaction of doing your bit for the future of the profession, helping a new pharmacist start out on the road to becoming the best he can and encouraging him when the rest of the profession is moaning about the demise of pharmacy.

But really depends on choosing the right candidate I suppose.

[paul2008]

Re: what is fair pre-reg salary for ind pharmacy?

free labour maybe :P

hardly free unless you pay well below the grant, don't forget the employer also has to pay employers NI, and other employment costs.