Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

[Tony Schofield]

On another thread, (Chemists to offer GP services) Solomon has raised concerns about the future of the profession of Pharmacy as there are new Pharmacy courses on offer at the Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield. (He clearly states his views on the thread which I would reproduce here if I could cut and paste which I can't!)

What does anybody else think?

[paul2008]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

On another thread, (Chemists to offer GP services) Solomon has raised concerns about the future of the profession of Pharmacy as there are new Pharmacy courses on offer at the Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield. (He clearly states his views on the thread which I would reproduce here if I could cut and paste which I can't!)

What does anybody else think?

Have you seen how hard it is to find a pre-reg place theses days, if all pharmacy graduates should become pharmacists (debatable), a limit on the number being churned out each year should be made approximately equal to the training places available, new courses are just going to increase the pressure on training posts.

As you say since the course is accredited there will be some standard. I believe that as long as the basics are taught a pharmacist will be made during the pre-reg. In terms of accreditation, for example there are 4 Overseas Pharmacist Programs at 4 universities, all are accredited but have different syllabuses and methods of assessment so even though they are very different on some level it can be assumed that they have the same objectively measured quality.

Coming from my background(Zimbabwe), I think that any good school of pharmacy should be attached to a medical school. If you want doctors and pharmacists to communicate and work together effectively start by training then in the same institutions, almost all UK schools of pharmacy fail to met this basic ideal.

[Jeff]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

Have you seen how hard it is to find a pre-reg place theses days, if all pharmacy graduates should become pharmacists (debatable), a limit on the number being churned out each year should be made approximately equal to the training places available, new courses are just going to increase the pressure on training posts.

How hard is it? (When I applied I was offered 3 grade E's but it was a long time ago)

Coming from my background(Zimbabwe),

What do you think of Robert Mugabes moustache?
(it was a topic of conversation in Huddersfiled the other week)

Jeff

[SolomonQ]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

If Mr TS' point is that i am saying that universities looking to offer pharmacy courses should be more reputable institutions then OK, i dont mind, (sorry for apprantly insulting all those people who live in towns and cities with lower reputation institutions (SEE OTHER THREAD FOR EXPLANATION))

More in detail to this point, this is how it goes, these newer school of pharmacy in low reputation universities abviously have lower reputation than other schools of pharmacy, so any rational student would place the older Schools of pharmacy as their first or second choice (abviosuly were not taking into account preference for people to stay home, friends choice of university and other factors), so these universities would have the choice to offer the best amongst these students places on their course....now ive just realised this is a complicated process and involves many factors and mechanisms which will take a long time to explain so I will just present the conclusion:

higher demend for better reputation university places will result in higher grade demand e.g. with such universities its normally ABB, (I had a friend who was predeicted AAB, was unsuccessful for dentistry so was told by the dentistry department to apply for pharmacy and got the place), lesser unis seem to want BBB, but ive known people who've got into Aston with BBC, and if you know anything about a-levels these days then you know the ability of these students.

a few minutes of research and ive come up with these entrance grades:

Nottingham: ABB
Huddersfield: BBC (280-320 UCAS tariff points, dont know why they give a max)
Wolverhampton: (BBB) 300-360 UCAS tariff points
Aston: "A typical offer is ABB"
Manchester: ABB
Kings: ABB three A-levels or BBB/B from three A-levels and one AS-level
Bath: Typical offer of AAB

Now as can be seem from the above the newer institutions want lower entrance grades, and from the type of people ive seen getting places at universities wanting ABB, I can just imagine what quality of students will be taken into these newer courses. I knew one person who got onto an MPharm course of a popular university with an ABC the A was in psychology, which is one those A-levels where alot of people get high marks. Even I ended up with 85/100, even though i averaged a B in my A2 (75/100 i think),because I didnt value it as an A-level in my second year so slacked quite abit,you can do the calculations yourself about what i got in my first year psychology (Btw I didnt need this A level to get my place on the course).

Peace Out again, A-Town!!!

[Jeff]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

I
More in detail to this point, this is how it goes, these newer school of pharmacy in low reputation universities abviously have lower reputation than other schools of pharmacy, so any rational student would place the older Schools of pharmacy as their first or second choice (abviosuly were not taking into account preference for people to stay home, friends choice of university and other factors), so these universities would have the choice to offer the best amongst these students places on their course....now ive just realised this is a complicated process and involves many factors and mechanisms which will take a long time to explain so I will just present the conclusion:

An element of truth - however the truly ambitious would do some research and decide who they wanted to learn from. i.e the reputation of the staff as well as the reputation of the institution.

Pharmacy is changing - a quick glance at the info pages leads me to ask if you want a degree that equips you for the present or one that lays the foundations for an uncertain future?

and if you know anything about a-levels these days then you know the ability of these students.

Only from helping my sons revise

Now as can be seem from the above the newer institutions want lower entrance grades,

Yes - they still have to establish their reputations - but should a new student of pharmacy be looking to the future or to the past?

Jeff

[mr_colt]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

Coming from my background(Zimbabwe), I think that any good school of pharmacy should be attached to a medical school. If you want doctors and pharmacists to communicate and work together effectively start by training then in the same institutions, almost all UK schools of pharmacy fail to met this basic ideal.

Having toured around Wolverhampton's pharmacy "school" last year; I have to say I wasn't fantastically impressed. It was ok but; merely a sub-department in the School of Applied Sciences. They couldn't assure me that the RPSGB would accredit the graduates from our prospective entry either. Despite their relaxed entry requirements; I later found out that they wouldn't take me given my A-level alternative even with the highest possible mark.

Keele on the other hand; seems far more established despite only having run for a few years. Being under the Faculty of Health alongside Keele's established medical school has certainly helped. It just seems far more thought-out than the Wolves setup.

Keele often use their own entry exams for assessment of non a-level applicants where the qualification cannot be assigned a clear number of UCAS points. Much better than a simple "no" just because you didn't go down the conventional route at 16. So from a prospective Student's point of view, I agree with Paul's thinking in his previous post.

mr_colt.

[Titch]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

I chose Sunderland university because at the time it was one of the few universities offering a modular course.

I hate exams and the chance to have 40% of my marks come from coursework appealed to me.


As far as reputations went - I didn't think about it at all, and to this date I don't think anyone other than pharmacy staff making conversation have enquired where I got my degree from.


I do agree that increasing the number of schools of pharmacy without a corresponding increase in pre-reg places is a bit short-sighted, and I disagree that the pre-reg will be made into a pharmacist - just read some of the other posts on here about pre-reg experiences and tell me how those tutors will turn out a pharmacist at the end of the year.


It's possible that too many of the "original" pharmacy schools are relying on their reputation and perhaps a bit of competition might make the resulting graduates better pharmacists.

Whilst acheiving decent grades has to be considered, a good proportion of my time as a pharmacist is knowing how to apply the knowledge I have and I do not think that that is something that can be graded A, B, C etc.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that so long as all the universities have to meet certain standards and cover core elements of teaching/training then what does it matter where the university is.

An alternative debate could be started on whether the level of teaching, assessment etc at current and new universities is adequate, regardless of their geographical location.....

[SolomonQ]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

On another thread, (Chemists to offer GP services) Solomon has raised concerns about the future of the profession of Pharmacy as there are new Pharmacy courses on offer at the Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield. (He clearly states his views on the thread which I would reproduce here if I could cut and paste which I can't!)

What does anybody else think?

hmmm, one down, one to go, even the RPSGB agree with me now in this case. Most people mustav heard the "news" ("olds") by now.

Although, I have to say in support of newer institutions that out of all the new unis offering the MPharm course, Keele impresses me the most, I even considered it for Physics (MPhys) when I was looking for unis to apply to, although it has no established reputation at the time.

[Emmz]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

hmmm, one down, one to go, even the RPSGB agree with me now in this case. Most people mustav heard the "news" ("olds") by now.

About Wolverhampton losing their accreditation? Have you not heard the news they've gotten it back?

[u2bawooly]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

the obvious concern for me is that the under recruitment wasnt a result of too many students:too few places. It was too few students attracted or too many students with shit grades (by the way I regard below B as shit, but this is an opinion). Having recently qualified (no clues) it was obvious that there wasnt a place shortage as the lecture theatres I sat in weren't full. As for the UCAS grade requirements, they are farcical. Many students just don't acheive them but get a place. I know of someone who qualified at the same time as me who got into Portsmouth with two Ds and an E at clearing.

The whole thing stinks of money and government interference. Though as you know I am rather untrusting of anyone in a suit and goaty beard. This has stemmed from all area managers being ****s.

btw, do not feel ashamed to shout from the rooftops that you acheived top grades, regardless of the uni you chose. I am embarrassed that there is no competitiveness between those unis that require top grades and those that allow lazy C grade ferkwits in.

[Asterix]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

I don't quite get what the debate here is about. Are we simply saying in about 3-4 years time there will be a lot of unemployment?

[johnep]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

All depends on law of supply and demand. Lots of graduates in India working in call centres. As Mr Micawber might have said: 20 jobs available and 19 pharmacists... bliss. 20 jobs available and 21 pharmacists... misery.
johnep

[SolomonQ]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

About Wolverhampton losing their accreditation? Have you not heard the news they've gotten it back?

I did actually, and then felt like a plonker, the fact that they lost it in the first place shows the situation, what actually happened was I was questioning the quality of the degree universities like wolverhampton offered and other people disagreed, and then I got proven right.

anyway getting the accreditation back doesnt solve the problem, I want to see reputable universities offered incentives to open a pharmacy course rather than the mickey mouse "universities", geared mainly to get as many students through the door that they can, to make exploit the government funding into further education.

I think this year is where shortage of pharmacists changed into too many pharmacists. So the job situation etc... will only get worse.

[Emmz]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

I did actually, and then felt like a plonker, the fact that they lost it in the first place shows the situation, what actually happened was I was questioning the quality of the degree universities like wolverhampton offered and other people disagreed, and then I got proven right.

anyway getting the accreditation back doesnt solve the problem, I want to see reputable universities offered incentives to open a pharmacy course rather than the mickey mouse "universities", geared mainly to get as many students through the door that they can, to make exploit the government funding into further education.

I think this year is where shortage of pharmacists changed into too many pharmacists. So the job situation etc... will only get worse.

Wasn't the big thing at Wolverhampton they had no head of school rather than the quality of teaching? The school of pharmacy at De Montford has been around for a fair few years yet their accreditation was thrown into question.

[Lazy Nite]

Re: Universities of Wolverhampton and Huddersfield offering Pharmacy courses

So happy Wolverhampton got it back! I don’t know about the University itself, but they have some dedicated teachers there………