First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

[kemzero]

A coroner has called for tougher restrictions on the sale of over-the-counter drugs after the death of a woman who became addicted to Nurofen Plus.---Daily Telegraph 14/12/2007


what next for pharmacists?

Supermarket pharmacy support staff appear to be the worst offenders..in my opinion! many atimes I've been a mystery shopper asking for drugs that interact with one another etc ....they are sold with no questions asked. NO WHAM ..nothing

If this trend continues and remote supervison kicks in most OTC meds might be switched back to POMs to ensure patient safety is not compromised.

Perhaps its time to reclassify certain OTC medicines as Pharmacist only meds
hence having four classes of medicines GSL,P, Pharmacist Only and POMs I think the PharmSOC and other leading bodies must facilitate some sort of solution, before some more serious damage is done

[Pharmanaut]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

A coroner has called for tougher restrictions on the sale of over-the-counter drugs after the death of a woman who became addicted to Nurofen Plus.---Daily Telegraph 14/12/2007


what next for pharmacists?

Supermarket pharmacy support staff appear to be the worst offenders..in my opinion! many atimes I've been a mystery shopper asking for drugs that interact with one another etc ....they are sold with no questions asked. NO WHAM ..nothing

If this trend continues and remote supervison kicks in most OTC meds might be switched back to POMs to ensure patient safety is not compromised.

Perhaps its time to reclassify certain OTC medicines as Pharmacist only meds
hence having four classes of medicines GSL,P, Pharmacist Only and POMs I think the PharmSOC and other leading bodies must facilitate some sort of solution, before some more serious damage is done

Not doing 2WHAM is poor practice indeed.
Their superintendent should be notified.

[u2bawooly]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

PHARMACIST ONLY!! I'm sure I've said that before, but anyways, TOP IDEA. It makes sense. I'm not even a fan of wwham. So what if it is drummed into our heads at uni. It's pretty crap. It does collect some vital information. But enough to isolate a diagnosis or appropriate action. hmm. I suspect that pharmacys play a role in the increasing rates of cancer (bowel,stomach etc) as WWHAM doesn't consider holistically what the cause of the symptom may be. I recently worked in United CO-OP and got angry. I noticed the SOP for P medicine sales. 'patient presents'...bla,bla...'carry out WWHAM', bla bla,..possible treatment identified...............'If pharmacist present-proceed with sale' (!!!!!!!) ie, if the pharmacist is in the building, sell a P med. That ain't supervision!!! No-one understands supervision. P meds fly off the shelves at BOOTS. Truth be known, if any bus driver stands behind the dispensary, the public will accept their advice. Even if they say paracetamol aint got paracetamol in it.

[Jeff]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

I think the PharmSOC and other leading bodies must facilitate some sort of solution, before some more serious damage is done

The RPSGB have been ignoring the problem for years. If we are to police the sales of medicines liable to abuse we need the tools to do so.
Patient registration at pharmacies and a class of drugs only available to registered patients could have been a solution, but perhaps a better solution is on the horizon - a class of drugs whose sale has to be recorded on the patients centrally held medical record - the NHS spline. Use and abuse could then be monitored.

Jeff

[johnep]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

One of the uses of the id card could be to record sales of codeine etc with a suitable flag up on the till screen. Or even a transfer to the pts pmr.
johnep

[drh785]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

Yes supermarkets are the worst offenders.

My local supermarket pharmacy rarely refuses supplies of Nurofen Plus - in fact they have a customer that buys 24 everyday!

They also have problems with
1. Paramol - they have a customer that they call 'Paramol Man' who gets very nasty if refused.
2. Co-codamol -several of their customers are addicted.
3. Sleeping tablets
4. Solpadeine/Ultramol

I agree that these products should be pharmacist only or perhaps we should ban them altogether - although we shouldn't have to do this if we have effective supervision.
In addition are pharmacists afraid of confrontation? which i feel some are!!

[kemzero]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

Yes supermarkets are the worst offenders.

My local supermarket pharmacy rarely refuses supplies of Nurofen Plus - in fact they have a customer that buys 24 everyday!

They also have problems with
1. Paramol - they have a customer that they call 'Paramol Man' who gets very nasty if refused.
2. Co-codamol -several of their customers are addicted.
3. Sleeping tablets
4. Solpadeine/Ultramol

I agree that these products should be pharmacist only or perhaps we should ban them altogether - although we shouldn't have to do this if we have effective supervision.
In addition are pharmacists afraid of confrontation? which i feel some are!!

What can we as "pharmacists with a conscience " do about it , do we lobby the English Board or that will be £395 please PharmSoc?,, because the situation can only get worse and not better if this trend is not stemmed.

NVQ level 1 /2 is obviously inadequate for OTC sales perhaps only NVQ level 3 staff should be involved in OTC sales otherwise the PharmSoc and other powers that be should introduce PHARMACIST ONLY meds

[ymdawd]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

These are not new problems but is adding in ever more controls at the sharp end of the business going to make a difference.? Probably not as the ever resourceful public will find ways round whatever obstacles are put in their way

To those that know me I am not a fan of supermarket pharmacies but having worked in some of them I find them no better or worse than any other type of pharmacy. It depends very much on the individual pharmacists concerned as to how ethically they operate.

B]Surely patients/customers should have to take some responsibilty for what after all is a problem of their own making. This really has become a NANNY state.[/B]

[Smithy]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

could not agree more ---------any idiot who exceeds the normal dose is now a victim --- as usual pharmacy is portrayed as the bogey man...when i sell a p medicine i invariably say "the corect dose is on the packet" if the idiots take more then tough.. others (ie government gps etc) have not had much more success trying to get smokers to quit, diabetics to stop eating chips pies and smoking etc etc. it is high time that people were told to take responsibility for their own actions.............

[Zoggite]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

It depends very much on the individual pharmacists concerned as to how ethically they operate.

It's not always that easy: I used to keep Paramol hidden in a counter drawer, and the staff were told to say "Sorry, we don't stock it..." to anyone asking for it by name; but then we were taken over by a large multiple (you all know who, by now!), who gave me no choice but to diplay loads of it as it was on the bl***y Planogram, and they had a great big poster advertising it across the counter! No amount of protesting (short of me walking out) made any difference.
Ethics- a place in south-east England?

[drh785]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

Some very very good points made here i feel:
1. Pharmacist only to sell

2. Counter assistants having to be NVQ 3 qualified.

3. Records kept in patients record of what they are buying. They have to be registered to buy the product. If we suspect abuse we can contact their GP.

Shall I e-mail the Daily Mail about it? -who wrote the article.

[kemzero]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

Some very very good points made here i feel:
1. Pharmacist only to sell

2. Counter assistants having to be NVQ 3 qualified.

3. Records kept in patients record of what they are buying. They have to be registered to buy the product. If we suspect abuse we can contact their GP.

Shall I e-mail the Daily Mail about it? -who wrote the article.

If we all agree as a forum we could e-mail
the MHRA and copy in the following
NPSA,PharmSoc,NPA,PAGB,

Press: Which and then the usual rags ....starting with the Mail

[Jeff]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

What can we as "pharmacists with a conscience " do about it , do we lobby the English Board or that will be £395 please PharmSoc?,,

Have a look at Australia's Project Stop

Project Stop - Home

This is aimed at dealing with the pseudoephedrine problems but could be extended to other projects.

Jeff

[the old merlin]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

A few years ago it was not uncommon to see the old Stat Comm get very nasty with people who sold large quantities of Codeine Linctus to addicts, and, AFAIK, it more or less stopped.
I see no reason why people who sell large quantities of addictive medications to individuals should not be treated in the same way. And if an employee pharmacist is told that s/he MUST sell to "Paramol Man" "because he gets aggressive" , then the company, in the person of the Superintendent is at fault and at risk from the appropriate disciplinary procedures.

I wonder what happened to the Tesco manager in (I think) Bromley whose store lost its licence for selling drink to under -aged customers?

[Pharmanaut]

Re: First it was Pseudoephedrine......now it might be Nurofen Plus

It's not always that easy: I used to keep Paramol hidden in a counter drawer, and the staff were told to say "Sorry, we don't stock it..." to anyone asking for it by name; but then we were taken over by a large multiple (you all know who, by now!), who gave me no choice but to diplay loads of it as it was on the bl***y Planogram, and they had a great big poster advertising it across the counter! No amount of protesting (short of me walking out) made any difference.
Ethics- a place in south-east England?

Insanity might spread if Direct To Consumer of POM becomes allowed.
Currently being debated by the EU.