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Thread: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

  1. #11
    Ushio78 is offline Registered Pharmacist
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by dippsy View Post
    Good point. However, in this age complete trust and honour in an employer (or even an employee) is now a liability. The market conditions have changed so much that if a better opportunity came up you need to embrace it (even if it means screwing somebody else). Gentlemens agreements (not meaning to be sexist) mean nothing now.

    Naturally any termination of contract should be done as non-acrimoniously as possible and needs to be balanced with future issues that arise. As an employer in this situation, you have every right to be angry at what has happened. However, it does not detract from the issue that the individual need must be met first from a first person perspective.

    Honour and trust are virtues only to the extent that they do not limit personal development and comply with the law. After that, they become liabilities.
    Dippsy I'm afraid but I can't second you on what you are saying:
    First of all honour and trust are virtues no matter what, which means that you either are a person that possess the aforementioned qualities or you are not.
    Second, when you talk about "complying with the law" do you consider moral laws to be important or not? Morality is of paramount importance, if people had enough of it we could all live without the need of so much red tape to cut through.
    As an employee you should evaluate all the possible offers available before signing a contract!

    Matt

  2. #12
    dippsy's Avatar
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    I knew I would be unpopular here! And for the record, I am not a selfish git ... I am just trying to be as pragmatic as possible

    Let me explain further with perhaps an analogy or two ...

    We are all in a constant struggle between what we percieve is 'right' and what we actually need to do in order to survive. (Note, by what I mean by survive, I don't mean that you will die but instead maintain a comfortable lifestyle based on your individual needs). On occassion these issues will be conflict ... as can be seen in the example above.

    I don't want to pre-empt the actual reasons for the contract issue but let us take (as an example) that there has been a huge amount of debt that has accumulated as a result of being a student and you are desperate to reduce these debts. You have just signed a contract with one company but a better one arrives. Here lies the conflict. You know that the 'right' thing is to go with the contract that you have just signed but you also know that by foregoing the new opportunity that you are sentencing yourself to another two years of paying down the debt.

    Different people will have different answers to the problem. Some will say you signed the contract and therefore honourbound to fulfill it. Others will say that you need to do what is right for you.

    Now if we replace the example above with the fact that if you do not take the new job, then you will not be able to pay for the carer to come and look after your elderly mother, then the issue takes a completely different perspective for many people.

    In both of the examples above, I personally would say that the need of the individual would outweigh the need of the signed contract. Other people will respond differently.

    The issues of honour and trust are not black and white but they are a blurred reality based on the perspective of different individuals.

  3. #13
    Tony Schofield's Avatar
    Tony Schofield is offline Registered Pharmacist
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    A signed contract is more than a nudge and a wink. If you sign a contract knowing that the terms and conditions are insufficient to meet your requirements, whose fault is that?

    I repeat. The fundamental principle is one of trust. If you can't be trusted you have no value.

    But thanks for giving us the "heads up" Dipsy........we know who we can trust don't we...........?

  4. #14
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I know that I am very much in the minority with this trail of thought. However, I would be very surprised if many people in the real world would go with the loyalty option as opposed to reducing their debts by two years.

    As with politics, alliances shift and change with the political climate. In macroeconomics, trust is essentially a commodity that is traded for the benefit of the country involved. The same principle can be applied to the micro scale

  5. #15
    Ushio78 is offline Registered Pharmacist
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    I do sympathize for people that find themselves in the situations you listed Dippsy, however this is not what I thought after reading the original post: it looked like she had found a place that suited her needs and then came across a job with a better location/wage (how much better is not important) and wanted to withdraw from the contract she just signed.
    It is true that the Manager could accept to release her from the contract but he would probably have a bad opinion of her; if she is fine with that I'm sure there are people that have done much worse things in their lives, it all comes down to your personality.

    Matt

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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ushio78 View Post
    if she is fine with that I'm sure there are people that have done much worse things in their lives, it all comes down to your personality.

    Matt
    At least I agree with this!

  7. #17
    hibernia is offline Thousand Plus Poster !!!
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by dippsy View Post
    As with politics, alliances shift and change with the political climate. In macroeconomics, trust is essentially a commodity that is traded for the benefit of the country involved. The same principle can be applied to the micro scale
    Thanks for that dippsy. I'm starting to understand what went wrong in Ireland. Like Tony we thought 'trust' was some sort of fundmental principle. We expected that politicians, bankers and churchmen would honour that principle. How wrong we were. All the time it was just a 'commodity', something to be traded, to be sold to the highest bidder.

    Yet there are still people you can trust. An elderly lady rang me at home late one night. That day she had been in the shop and bought a fine hair net. When she was going to bed she put on the hair-net and discovered that she had picked up two together by mistake but had only paid for one. She had got my number from a friend because she wouldn't be able to sleep until she told me it was a genuine error and she would call in the next day with the 50c I didn't even know she owed me.
    I do think that is a bit excessive but if everybody had such a scrupulous attitude to macro and micro-economics I'm pretty sure our country wouldn't be in such a mess.

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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by hibernia View Post
    I do think that is a bit excessive but if everybody had such a scrupulous attitude to macro and micro-economics I'm pretty sure our country wouldn't be in such a mess.
    And you are very right about this. There has even been a paper published about it ... http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/34/46839852.pdf

    However, the reality is that in life most people are in it for themselves. Yes, there are notable exceptions and the world would definately be a better place with eachother trusting one another. However, the simple reality is that the world does not work in this way.

    I can not do this book any justice here ... but for those who have not read it, I would certainly recommend reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins (I would also recommend all the others he has written). Apply some of the principles taught in the book to the real world and you will see where I am coming from.

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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by hibernia View Post
    Thanks for that dippsy. I'm starting to understand what went wrong in Ireland. Like Tony we thought 'trust' was some sort of fundmental principle. We expected that politicians, bankers and churchmen would honour that principle. How wrong we were. All the time it was just a 'commodity', something to be traded, to be sold to the highest bidder.
    Trust is still a fundamental principle. It always is or things break down. However, in Ireland you forgot that you can only trust a politician in the run up to an election, that a politician cannot be trusted to know or understand the value of anything other than the price of votes and that banks can only be trusted to be fair weather friends.

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    johnep is online now Moderator
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    Re: Terminating signed contract!!!Is it possible!?!?!?

    Lloyd George started it when he promised 'a land fit for heroes'.
    johnep

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