Rates of Pay For Locums

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Amba

Come on Jeff. What you are doing is bad news for all pharmacists. It's like selling yourself short and the profession. The moment we start doing services for free (like collection and delivery) we undermine our profession.

Get real - thats already here and it's too late to go back.

The attitude becomes why should we pay you for this service when you do it for free anyway?

As a profession we have been crap at recording what we do - the move to payment for what we do along with the irriation of recording it is to be welcomed as a STEP in the right direction.

Do you honestly think that you are particularly qualified to monitor and supervise a step-down strategy for a heroine or drug addiction client?

Absolutely not - because I don't believe in a step down strategy.
(But that's another debate - about methadone maitenance and detox/naltrexone implants9not licenced) once/if the patient is ready)

Nobody is under the impression that you are a knight in shining armour for taking on these quite dangerous activities under your own volition.

Which dangerous activities?

Think carefully, my friend, you are just setting yourself up for a huge fall from grace with the RPSGB

They couldn't dislike me any more than they do already (see PrivateRx for examples)

Jeff

[admin]

Jeff

The society might not like you, but that's a long way from being struck off isn't it? I honestly do believe that selling OTC drugs to people you know are abusing them will be just seen as very unprofessional, and could land you deep in it with the society - I think that's what the "dangerous activities" in Amba's post is referring to. That, and the fact that you appear to sound as if you are undertaking heroin detox of people using OTC drugs. I am sure you are not, and are just adding to an interesting lively debate, but some of your posts suggest you are prepared to do just that.

I am personally banned from Private-Rx (one post managed that) so could you give us an example? I can expand on why if you'd like me to. I could of course just get my mate to look and send the posts to me, but to be honest I can't even be bothered to do that as I don't like the site.

I can see where you are coming from Jeff, and all these dilemmas are interesting topics for debate, wether actual or theoretical, but some of the things you say/hint you do won't be looked on very favourably if you are caught doing them by a society inspector.

I know we all do things for free - deliveries etc, and that's just the way it is. I do however draw the line at making people's appointments for them as they've landed themselves in court, and I believe that's what Amba's referring to on that point. I would personally put myself in the "doormat" brigade Linnear refers to if I was actual making their appointments for them. To be honest I see that as one step above doing their shopping and taking their granny out for the day.

Wouldn't this be better being thrashed out in the private section of the forum, where prying eyes can't read it?

Just a thought.....

[Amba]

Hi Jeff, Admin, and all,

it is not my intention to berate you and if you feel that i have then i apologise. Being a fellow pharmacist it just feels my duty to tell you the way it may all pan out in the end if certain steps were taken by you.

I am all for thrashing this out in the private section
but i don't know what further constructive advice i could add other than to say don't put yourself at risk because others may not return the favour.

I will check out Private-Rx and see what's been going on should make for interesting reading.

Amba

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by admin

Jeff

The society might not like you, but that's a long way from being struck off isn't it? I honestly do believe that selling OTC drugs to people you know are abusing them will be just seen as very unprofessional, and could land you deep in it with the society

If you'd followed the link to overcount you'd see that they offer personalised treatment plans for OTC addiction. Would I help with one of them by selling to the client - sure as hell I would. Would the society approve- probably not - but they'd be too frightened to take it on - it would involve an acknowledgement of OTC drug addiction - pharmacies failure to do anything about it - and a head to head with the units that do deal with OTC abuse.
And if MOC's are reading this - yes it's a challenge. If it makes our MOC's get off their backsides and actually do something for our forgotten patients so much the better.

I think that's what the "dangerous activities" in Amba's post is referring to. That, and the fact that you appear to sound as if you are undertaking heroin detox of people using OTC drugs.

No - I asked if you'd signpost someone who wanted to try a DIY detox.
Yes I do. Either to websites or if they have time I take a history and ask a contact at an addicion unit.
I then do the cowardly bit and explain that I can't supply the OTC drugs recommended knowing what they will be used for - but that other pharmacies can provided that the client isn't too honest about the intended use.

I am personally banned from Private-Rx (one post managed that) so could you give us an example?

I remember ;-) And I'm sorry but PrivateRx is a closed list and doesn't allow reposting

Wouldn't this be better being thrashed out in the private section of the forum, where prying eyes can't read it?

Just a thought.....

Talk about me all you like there - but I wont be in it - one pharmacy ghetto is enough.

Jeff reg No 68666 if MOC wants to get involved.

[admin]

Jeff

Ok fair enough, you are entitled to your views. I haven't the time to go through all your posts and copy/paste bits as you have, because I'm going on a cruise and have to be at the airport for 6am Saturday. All I would say is: -

If you don't think the society would take a case on as you describe, then you're a braver man then me. Good luck if you ever need it.

Private-Rx may not "allow" a lot of things, but they cannot police any of them - just ask my solicitor. They have also been trying to sell that site for years so I have been told (I can't say who by - sorry). A couple of friends regularly pass the posts on to me, I just can't be bothered to read them as I am busy enough with this. If you feel it's a pharmacy ghetto why do you use it?

I only added our private pharmacy section after a lot of requests/protests from some pharmacists. The truth is the people who moaned the most about this being an open forum (which I prefer) which the public could read, don't even use the section. It's hardly used, and is just there if you want to put a private message that you only want other pharmacists to see.

I feel I have contributed all I can to this particular debate, but I thank you for keeping it so lively and interesting.

[Linnear]

Jeff man, ever considered a new line of work?

I thought I had a persecution complex!

You seem to see your job as to take sh*t off of everyone, not be paid for it and then spend the rest of your time trying to take on the RPSGB.

I had lots of other stuff to say but now I come to type it it just feels like kicking someone when they're down.

Do you believe that you're untouchable? You say that you're already in the Soc's bad books and yet you're still ready to gamble your certificate every day with practices that you know they would come down on you like a ton of bricks for?

Seems very strange to me.

I amy disagree with a lot of the stuff you've put but I like a good argument so I never hold it against anyone. And in the end we're all pharmacists and we should look out for each other.

Look after yourself man, no other b*stards gonna do it.

[Jeff]

LOL - no I don't take shit - I just try to help - and the help is generally appreciated and it makes the job more pleasant knowing that you have helped and that it is appreciated.

As for being in the Societies bad books - I don't feel that our Society can both reulate and represent at the same time. MOC's get upset when I point out the societies historic failings.

Stat Comm and its reporting in the PJ defines the profession by what we can't do. The case I quoted earlier is AFAIK the only one that has defined what we should/could do. I find that an important change for our Society.

If phoning up an addiction unit on Tuesday to see if I can give the weekends dose on Thursday because the client is due in court on Friday isn't acting in the best interest of the patient - why am I there?

If phoning the addiction unit to see if a client can go on to daily green scripts so that they can hold down a job is taking shit - I'm sorry but in my book it's helping the patient.

Making a phone call isn't hard work.

Being part of a treatment plan for OTC addiction - yeah it's me trying to push society into recognising a problem and the dealing with it in a more structured manner.

It has to be debated. To quote your signature

All it takes for evil to prosper if for good people to do nothing

OTC addiction is an evil - and a straight refusal to supply IS doing nothing.

Jeff