Think very wisely before joining pharmacy school

[culchie82]

I work closely with pharmacists and dispensers every day and often visit them. Until fairly recently I used to cover dispensing assistants but with our expansion the IT stuff fills all and excess of my time. I can see the change to services happening now we are active in promoting NMS and MUR (all recorded on PMR). Along with the standard smoking cessation, minor ailments, weight management we also run INR clinics in a number of our pharmacies. We have dispensaries that do 800 or so items daily and those that do very few. We have pharmacies in Doctors surgeries as well as secondary retail and high street locations. I'm not completely outside. However as I'm not a pharmacist I consider myself to be more objective about pharmacy as an industry.

No I don't think so. I have worked in a Supermarket and on an IT helpdesk as well as working in pharmacies. I spent some time in retail management for a national clothing chain so I know about targets etc. I respect a newly qualified pharmacist's clinical knowledge but really they are a bit wet behind the ears. You say "higher than average starting salary" and perhaps bringing it down to the average is not such a bad thing?

The average Pharmacist doesn't give two hoots about diversifying into other areas, if it's just extra misery added to the everyday grind of the dispensary. If it's more work for less pay, with less staff then Pharmacists don't want to know full stop. A quick glance at Locumvoice will confirm this consensus. A Pharmacist's role has always been about the safe supply and effective use of Medicines, and this is how it should remain. There are plenty other providers of these healthy living initiatives.

"You say "higher than average starting salary" and perhaps bringing it down to the average is not such a bad thing?"

What do you think this would do to the morale of a workforce already at rock bottom?

[sparkybw]

I sympathise with the OP and share his pain. Five years ago I was a bright eyed bushy-tailed new student physio blissfully looking forward to my future and believing all the stuff in the physio schools glossy brochures. Now, older and wiser I think it is beyond belief that the universities and health service are still telling kids that there are futures for them in the NHS or associated sectors.

Since I began training as a physio there has been a year on year reduction in the number of places at universities for physiotherapy and this year one school has closed completely. And yet there are still thousands of newly qualified who have been unable to find work. Some of my cohort have had to leave the country to go to places such as Australia and New Zealand to find their first jobs. There is no particular hope that the sector will improve.

Like pharmacy, physios are shouting me!, me!, for any added value services or initaiatives that come up, and like pharmacy, jobs are being degraded by the use of semi-skilled workers replacing them for the 'minor' tasks. The result of this is that in many ways the physio role has been almost completely eroded. First, by the use of physio assistants who now carry out the bulk of the work under supervision, and secondly by the belief which is becoming more and more apparent that if the assistant is doing the work that has been initially decided on by a doctor, why do you actually need the middle man - ie physio? Could you not simply get the doctor to prescribe the treatment and the assistant carries out his order?

Add to that the increasing professionalism of Sports Therapists who are also replacing physios and you begin to see the end for physio. And there's even calls for Occupational Therapy and Physiotherapy to be be merged as many people don't understand what makes them seperate professions in the first place.

So the future is that all jobs will be done by the lowest (and cheapes) grade of staff that can be employed to do it. Anyone who is looking for high income, high status professions needs to understand this and make sure that they go to a high status university, and come out with a high grade qualification achieved at the highest level. Otherwise just form a queue at the job centre because only the very best of the best, or those with family connections, will stand any chance of a career.

[johnep]

So, why don't you look into supply teaching?
johnep

[LeftArm]

The average Pharmacist doesn't give two hoots about diversifying into other areas, if it's just extra misery added to the everyday grind of the dispensary. If it's more work for less pay, with less staff then Pharmacists don't want to know full stop. A quick glance at Locumvoice will confirm this consensus. A Pharmacist's role has always been about the safe supply and effective use of Medicines, and this is how it should remain. There are plenty other providers of these healthy living initiatives.

Then you are right and pharmacy is a dinosaur that has reached an evolutionary dead end.

"You say "higher than average starting salary" and perhaps bringing it down to the average is not such a bad thing?"
What do you think this would do to the morale of a workforce already at rock bottom?

They will become HGV and taxi drivers.

The industry needs pharmacists who are forward thinking enough to help the industry move forward but there are too many set in their ways pharmacists holding it back.

[culchie82]

"They will become HGV and taxi drivers."

By that token, do you reckon Doctors (who get remunerated a lot better than Pharmacists by the way) would accept proliferation of Medical Schools, to the point that Doctors were ten a penny and salaries dropped like a stone. Do you not think they would raise a ruckus? Why should Pharmacists accept a reduction in salary?


"Then you are right and pharmacy is a dinosaur that has reached an evolutionary dead end."

With respect again, that's easy for you to say. You equate evolution as a forward step, an improvement but give no thought to the Pharmacist at the coalface with insurmountable workloads and ridiculous staffing levels. The equivalent would be me advising you to do x, y and z on top of your everyday job because it diversified your role but made your everyday working life an absolute hell, for the same or less money! Would you be game?

[Gordon Mackenzie]

All of these posts always lead back to the conclusion that pharmacists must be allowed to sit modules to enable them to do the same job and have the same title as doctors of medicine. These modules should be offered to qualified pharmacists and should be done through pharmacy without having to go over much of the same subject matter which would be a waste of national resources. Sorry to the schools of pharmacy. But they can surely offer these courses and pharmacists would beat a path to their door to purchase them and at last pharmacists would have a decent career.

[LeftArm]

Do you not think they would raise a ruckus? Why should Pharmacists accept a reduction in salary?

The GMC and BMA provide excellent representation for their members. The PSNC, NPA, the new Pharmacy Voice, GPhC, RPS don't ever seem to be heard and are generally ignored when they do speak up. Pharmacists need proper representation to get what they want or they will be left out. What are pharmacists doing about all the changes in the NHS? The same as they always do because "this is how it should remain". If you don't change then people will just work around you.

The equivalent would be me advising you to do x, y and z on top of your everyday job because it diversified your role but made your everyday working life an absolute hell, for the same or less money!

Again you think that pharmacy is some kind of special case. Do you think this kind of thing doesn't happen in IT? The reliance on IT is increasing all the time do you think that my salary increases in direct proportion to the amount of work and responsibility that I take on?

Do you think your attitude toward me has changed because you know that I am not a pharmacist?

[culchie82]

The GMC and BMA provide excellent representation for their members. The PSNC, NPA, the new Pharmacy Voice, GPhC, RPS don't ever seem to be heard and are generally ignored when they do speak up. Pharmacists need proper representation to get what they want or they will be left out. What are pharmacists doing about all the changes in the NHS? The same as they always do because "this is how it should remain". If you don't change then people will just work around you.


Again you think that pharmacy is some kind of special case. Do you think this kind of thing doesn't happen in IT? The reliance on IT is increasing all the time do you think that my salary increases in direct proportion to the amount of work and responsibility that I take on?

Do you think your attitude toward me has changed because you know that I am not a pharmacist?

With respect you work in IT for a Multiple. I wouldn't dream of advising you to diversify your role, because I wouldn't know the first thing about what your primary role involves and my opinion would be of limited to no value. Similarly, you have no idea of the day to day pressures that a Pharmacist faces because you aren't one yourself, so talk of diversifying our roles to improve ourselves is just idle pie in the sky talk.

[Hello]

There has been a bit of thread drift here from over supply of pharmacy graduates to diversifying pharmacists roles.

Tony Schofield and leftarm are proponents of churning out as many grads as possible so that the fittest ones will rise to the top because of increased competition. In that case then they should also support the abolishment of COE (control of entry) as then the best performing pharmacies will again benefit the patient again because of increased competition. Do I hear them shouting for COE to be abolished?

Let's face it, the majority of pharm grads are females who want to stand in the dispensary a few hours a week In their beige Laura Ashleigh trouser suits with matching next scarf talking to the local members of the women's guild about next week's flower show while their stock broker/engineer/IT consultant husbands bring in the big money. Unfortunately now that their hubby's have been laid off they are increasing their hours as they are the major bread winners.

So back to my opening post, I'm not hear to harp about diversifying. I'm just warning the Laura Ashleigh crowd to stay clear of pharmacy as it's not going to be cushy wee number for them when the kids reach school age and the Uni's should stop bs'ing them with their glossy brochures. Sure some of today's undergraduates will go on to have successful careers but they are going to be very few and very far between. Be afraid, be very afraid lol

[Hello]

So, why don't you look into supply teaching?
johnep

Have thought about it but would need to do a year post grad in teaching and another year probation, at my age the brain cells not so good and should really be wanting to wind down a little. Can't really be bothered with more essays, assignments and portfolio's of evidence, I've had my fill and I'll leave all that to the young ones!