Joining Sep 2009 OSPAP

[Rafael]

No because British graduates are not necessarily British. I do believe that a country should act responsibly and train its own professionals rather than poaching as the UK health service has been inclined to do in the past. However "British jobs for British workers" is a practical political solution to keep the countries citizens in work before helping the rest of the world with its unemployment problems. Charity begins at home and all that.

i agree paul just said that coz i am a a british grad, tho not british. it is fair enough after spending 4 years at uni, lots of money for education and living expenses, to expect getting a job after qualifying. if the policy makers don't like it, then they can stop the universities from recruiting international students

what was the government action to deal with the shortage of pharmacists during the 90s? opened another 10 schools of pharmacy, however universities got filled with international students as if they want to rely on the intake of brits, they would go bust . can't blame them if lots of british students don't go into education and prefer to work at supermarkets...etc plus let's face it, with all the benefits a (single women, unemployed, divorced, with 2 kids), can get, why would she go to uni or work hard to gain money?
thanks to the labour party :P

[johnep]

We had just two international students when I was at Uni. One was a refugee from Hungarian Russian invasion, the other was an Indian of South African origin who eventually became a professor at Khartoum University.

All I knew about the Sudan was the film of Khartoum which I have just ordered from LoveFilm.

As you may know, I consider it was a retrogade step to stop grants to overseas students and then charge them increased fees. When in export, met many who trained in UK and they held a lifelong affection which helped my sales considerably.
johnep

[paul2008]

We had just two international students when I was at Uni. One was a refugee from Hungarian Russian invasion, the other was an Indian of South African origin who eventually became a professor at Khartoum University.

All I knew about the Sudan was the film of Khartoum which I have just ordered from LoveFilm.

As you may know, I consider it was a retrogade step to stop grants to overseas students and then charge them increased fees. When in export, met many who trained in UK and they held a lifelong affection which helped my sales considerably.
johnep

When money is available it is a great thing to train people for other countries, for the host country it creates openings and the kind of development that international aid can't buy. However in all the places I have been I have been surprised how little people are prepared to do for their communities, those who do make the effort to enter the health professions go where the money is and people inevitably vote for governments who do encourage public sector growth.

What happened to quality leadership and service. Perhaps these only exist in peoples imagination.

I know that I am a bad example, I never did work in the community I grew up in, instead I went where there was greater need and found that I was overwhelmed and ended up in the great brain drain.

Raoul, I do sympathise with your position, I have my fingers crossed for a number of friends in simular or worse positions but in terms of the big picture if the UK is to recover ecconomically tough changes have to occur including getting the people who live and are not going anywhere into work, perhaps not so much in pharmacy but generally across the ecconomy

As a UK graduate you are potentially in a better position than a pharmacist who registers here as at present most commonwealth countries will make it very easy for you to work in them.

[ramroum]

all hospital pre-reg are paid 20 or more reem!
i agree and disagree, maybe independent contractors, but not the big multiples. i doubt employers will mind giving the job to anyone, especially multiples, i had 3 offers from 3 different employers. Something you may not be familiar with, but believe it or not employers should follow some recruitment policies, one of which is giving ' equal treatment' when interviewing all applicants. However the matter of getting the work permit from the home office is different as the employer needs to provide evidence that the post has been advertised for 2 weeks, and no British/EU citizen could occupy the post, then the home office will issue a work permit.
you are confusing the home office with employers and their recruitment policies when someone apply for a job. TS should provide more info re recruitment policies

How many hospital pre-reg places are available in the UK? relatively a small percentage. How many community pharmacy offer their pre-regs at least 20k? very rarely or maybe very very few!
I am not confusing employers with home office in giving priority to work permit holders. I know as a fact that employers have instructions to offer jobs to applicants with work permits not to the ones without even if they were the weaker candidates. Only the lucky ones will get such jobs in hospitals when no other competing work permit holders applying or these applicants decided that they didn't want the job after being offered. You can ask any hospital chief pharmacist about these rules if you know one.
I've got my placement fairly easily because I am British & good at interviews (I've got more than one offer at the time).

[Rafael]

How many hospital pre-reg places are available in the UK? relatively a small percentage.

so? this small % is >300, why wouldn't a foreign pharmacist(OSPAP for example) compete with the 'european candidates' for these jobs, if the hospital is willing to issue him work permit. oh sainsbury offer 20.5K as well, that's another 100
i understand that not all hospitals are willing to apply for work permit for a pharmacist, and that's why they prefer british candidates. to apply for a work permit, you should 1st register with the home office and get a license, which costs money, then you can recruit foreign pharmacists and apply for their work permit. the same is true for independent pharmacies, why would they pay another 500 pounds to recrute 1 pharmacist when they can fill the post? hospitals are not a big recruiters for pharmacists/pre-reg, that's why they ' prefer' a british candidate 1st.

How many community pharmacy offer their pre-regs at least 20k? very rarely or maybe very very few!

yeah, i am only aware of sainsbury offering 20.5 K

I am not confusing employers with home office in giving priority to work permit holders.

maybe you are not, but i am sure you just assumed that all foreign hospitals/OSPAP want to work in hospital. if not, why not consider the other >1000 pre-regs/posts that people compete for, and foreign pharmacists can compete and get the posts? multiples are the ones who occupy the market, and the big recruiters of pharmacists, not hospitals! i can talk about lloyds, co-op and boots, as i had a 1st hand experience, and the fact that i am on a student visa did not stop them for offering me a pre-reg, when i know some of my brits mates did not make it to the interview.

I know as a fact that employers have instructions to offer jobs to applicants with work permits not to the ones without even if they were the weaker candidates

do you have any evidence? would be interesting to read that, might change my view re this subject. please don't restrict the definition of employers to hospital employers, as i do understand why would they do that.

Only the lucky ones will get such jobs in hospitals when no other competing work permit holders applying or these applicants decided that they didn't want the job after being offered

i agree, but again i don't think the 1st poster asked re hospital placements.

You can ask any hospital chief pharmacist about these rules if you know one

i believe you...

I've got my placement fairly easily because I am British & good at interviews (I've got more than one offer at the time)

good for you

[ramroum]

Raoul,
The reason I am talking about hospital pre-reg placements because they are the only ones offering about or more than 20k, I didn't know that Sains offered this amount as well. This is whay I am not talking about the rest of the community phs because of the lower salary which according to Shan's new rules will not be good for OSPAP to apply to.

You are more addicted to this site than me!!

[johnep]

This link will explain my interest in Sudan. In the late 60s early 70s I worked for Bush Boake Allen and became friendly with Tony De Reymenth, a Syrian married to an English girl who represented BBA in the Middle East. He tried and succeeded with some, to introduce other perfumes to the area.

'Bint El Sudan' non-alcoholic perfume, created in 1920 by W.J. Bush & Co, was once the world's best selling fragrance

I wonder if Raoul has come across 'Bint'
johnep

[Rafael]

Raoul,
The reason I am talking about hospital pre-reg placements because they are the only ones offering about or more than 20k, I didn't know that Sains offered this amount as well. This is whay I am not talking about the rest of the community phs because of the lower salary which according to Shan's new rules will not be good for OSPAP to apply to.

You are more addicted to this site than me!!

fair enough then, i gotta admit i try to avoid posting these days, but i enjoy engaging with ya, just to balance your argument
yeah hun i am i am always logged on, i leave it on when i go to sleep, and check it all the time even while writing my dissertation at the moment.

[Rafael]

This link will explain my interest in Sudan. In the late 60s early 70s I worked for Bush Boake Allen and became friendly with Tony De Reymenth, a Syrian married to an English girl who represented BBA in the Middle East. He tried and succeeded with some, to introduce other perfumes to the area.

'Bint El Sudan' non-alcoholic perfume, created in 1920 by W.J. Bush & Co, was once the world's best selling fragrance

I wonder if Raoul has come across 'Bint'
johnep

bint means daughter john, na never came across this perfume, i only buy the posh ones did not know that non-alcoholic perfumes exist. the muslims back home dont make a big deal about perfumes and medicines containing alcohol, while here in the uk i noticed it is a different flavour of muslims taking things extremely. i am saying that as an observer, and as a guy who lived in a lot of places in the past 10 years. of course no offence is meant.
might be a good business opportunity if someone owns a pharmacy in bradfod or luton...etc, always flow with the demand folks..

[Rafael]

Veensp, share your opinion with us. would selling bint el sudan be a good business in your country? i doubt tho