Pharmacy setup by GPs

[catlane]

I hope this isn't an inappropriate question for the forum, but it seemed an effective way to tap into the pharmacist hive mind.

Our GP partnership wants to set up a pharmacy in the buildings next door to the practice that we also own. We all went to the Pharmacy Show at the NEC almost a year ago, and have been in a state of “analysis paralysis” since.

We are in a market town that is well provided for with pharmacies, but is not so well provided for in terms of enhanced services.
The initial thoughts were for a 100 h license, although the hours that are really wanted are about 60 to deliver the enhanced services that the practice would like. The building we own and is empty, but we are worried about having to open 100h, as the break even point appears 7-8000 items a month.

An alternative is to buy a license of a local pharmacy that is close but has little footfall. The goodwill has been valued at £150 to £200K, however I think that the owner will only sell for at least £300K. The options are either avoid the debt, but have larger running costs, or buy a license at an over the odds cost in order to grow the business, knowing 56 plus hours is where we need to be for the services to be right. We have had views from some pharmacist contacts, but at this stage, other opinions would help.

Thanks very much

[Tony Schofield]

And for this consultancy you will pay how much?

[catlane]

Of course I agree with you , it is the something of value for limited input nature of fora that people either are OK with, or are not. If you think a reply has generic value to a community, then it may be of more interest.

OK, if we want to commission a review of our options, from a an individual or team with a proven track record of success, what would a suitable professional fee be?

[Tony Schofield]

How long is a piece of string?

You are asking pharmacists to advise you how to avoid paying one of their number a sensible price to dispose of his/her business in order that you may prosper. When a similar request was made a couple of years ago I volunteered that a fee of 30 pieces of silver would be appropriate and I suppose that that may need adjusting for inflation.

1) You are "'aving a larff" if you expect us to believe you only wish to provide enhanced services. The position next to your surgery in a town "well provided for with pharmacies" will be very valuable. So valuable that paying £300k could look very cheap.

2) No-one can say how cheap or expensive as we don't know the numbers of patients you have or the volume of prescriptions you are generating. Please don't tell me as I don't want to know.

3) If one of the pharmacies "well providing" the town hears you are trying to buy a contract it is in their interests to outbid you for it hence the price inflation you are referring to.

If I were advising, I would say appoint a specialist business transfer agent (many advertise in the PJ) and commence discrete negotiations with the guy who is selling. £300k seems very cheap for a pharmacy adjacent a surgery with several prescribers and you will easily raise the cash to fund it. The agent will be able to assist with this if you have trouble. He will also be able to ensure you don't pay too much but of course, it is in your interests to pay a bit of a premium is it not? I know GPs are used to shouting via the LMC and just opening their wallets for cash from PCTs and this will get easier for you when you take over the commissioning of services. However, most other professions/businesses have to take a little rough with the smooth during their careers. Don't worry, it's worth it for you in the scenario you describe.

Also the pharmacist who is trying to sell has no NHS pension and you will be enabling him to retire with dignity whilst getting a bargain at the same time. However, generosity of spirit is not something we readily associate GPs with so don't worry too much on that score.

[johnep]

You certainly socked it to them Tony! I don't suppose they are used to being spoken like that by a pharmacist.
johnep

[Tony Schofield]

They are clearly a business savvy practice seeking to maximise their opportunities and I cannot blame them for that. Every last person who patronises this site would do the same in their situation. However, due to the generous nature of the treatment of GPs since the NHS began (Bevan "stuffing their mouths with gold" in post war austerity for everyone else), and I'm sure our GP colleagues would be surprised to read this, they are completely insulated from the real world issues of paying for things without getting reimbursed. Consequently the notion of investing is different to them. They invest to be reimbursed and then prosper from the payment for the service invested in. Every body else in business in the UK invests and ultimately gets reimbursed if the investment delivers. It's a culture shock they are still coming to grips with. GP commissioning will be a barrel of laughs believe me!!

What I do object to is the assumption that any pharmacist who could possibly help them, ie one with business experience, would happily, on an internet forum sing like a bird and see one of their colleagues get shafted by a group of privileged individuals who already get plenty of help from the state to make them rich.

We don't know individuals or personalities. All we know is that cash is involved and we are being asked to deprive one of our own of it in a sneaky sanctimonious way. If they haven't been addressed in this manner before they had better get used to it. Not just by pharmacists

[Racer]

The honourable course of action would be to pony up the £300K and buy the man out then transfer the business to your new premises. It'd give your new business a flying start and would pay as you won't need to open for 100 hours

Don't come on here and pretend that you're only doing this to get more enhanced services for your town. If you were really interested in this then you'd arrange a meeting with all the local pharmacies and the PCT and sort out any problems.

[andrew paxton]

In my humble opinion, the best pharmacists do it for the love of the job and the benefit of the patients, and are pleased that it makes a lot of money. GPs do it solely for the money, and they deserve to lose some, for a change.

[Tony Schofield]

Sorry Andrew, can't agree. However it would be a dreadful world if we all agreed. Altruistic pharmacists exist but are not as widespread as you imagine.

This practice won't lose anything. It will just cost more than they expected. However, it will be money well spent.............and I'm sure they realise that.

[andrew paxton]

My point was that GPs (generally) are plain greedy. Pharmacists (generally) aren't, or we would be GPs