I have just finished my degree and already have my pre reg sorted, but the other day i received a caution for driving my friend's car without insurance, i received a six points penalty and £200 fine for the lack of insurance but was cautioned for taking the car "without permission".
It is not that i took the car without permission, i asked before taking it and i was actually doing my friend a favour by going to pick her up, as she was drunk, but en route to her i got stopped, the police said i either take the caution or risk going to court where i could get a "criminal conviction", even though the solicitor said i had a 65% chance of beating the case, i just couldn't take the chance of getting a criminal conviction so i took the caution, however now i want to know where the society stands with cautions?
Will the caution have any repercussion on my practising as a pharmacist and what steps would you advise that i take.
Words cant describe how distraught i feel right now, i would appreciate any comments made. Thank you very much in advance.
The regulator's stance has always been that a caution is an admission of guilt, and my understanding through reading stat comm reports, and the occasional sorry tale on this forum, is that they see no difference between accepting the caution and having the conviction.
However, I don't see that offence as being a barrier to you registering as a pharmacist in due course. Get your friend to write a letter saying that she DID give you the permission to drive, but couldn't write it out at the time as she was drunk. You will need that letter, and the letters of any witnesses to her giving you permission, or having given you permission in the past, when you apply for registration.
I don't think there is any way to get a caution appealed or overturned, unfortunately. You were badly advised by your solicitor in that s/he should have been aware of the effect of cautions on professional regulators, IMO.
I'm sure that it will turn out to be just the loss of half a day filling out paperwork when you come to register, unless you have a nefarious past. Apart from the increase in your motor insurance premiums, which will probably be quite painful in themselves.
If he drove any car, then usually insurance covers another vehicle for 3rd party fire or theft. Why on earth did the girl not give a sworn statement that she had given permission?. More to this story than we have been told. If relationship broken up, the girl may be just getting her revenge.
None of this applied in my day, none of us had cars!
johnep
DavidS, should i contact the society now, or do i just get on with my pre reg and bring it up when it comes to registering.....
Johnep, the problem was that they could not get hold of her (they did not even ask me for her number, they were going by what they had, which was clearly out dated), I was in a cell for about 10 hours before I had the recorded interview; the police are so conniving that they even told me that although they have not got a sworn statement, they said they have reached her on the phone and she has said she did not give me permission for me to drive the car, although I did not believe this as she is my long term partner of four years (and at worse she would only receive a fine and points - which i have no doubt in my mind she would accept rather than me getting a caution or conviction), but the police twist your mind in so many directions, tell you so many things, that you begin to believe that the caution is a way out for you when in reality it is not..... I keep pinching myself for falling for their tricks and scheming ways.....as I have learnt from my partner that the police did not even contact her...
I just pray to the almighty God that I am able to register,especially after devoting four years studying, only for it to all fall crashing down to shambles at the last huddle........
I guess the moral of the story to myself and anyone reading.......no matter how simple or minor you think it might be, if it is breaking the law, just dont do it.....it is not worth it! (I m sure most people know this, but to those who are ignorant or stupid like my self just don't do it)......
Thanks again...guys
P.S. Sorry for the long essay...it just sort of helps get it off your mind
A cautionary lesson to us all. We did have one student poster, Percy Plum, who had three convictions and he was worried too. Whatever happened to him, no idea.
johnep
Long essays are good.
If what you say is borne out of the facts, I would look at appealing the caution if it is possible to do that. Have a look at Appeal Police Caution in The AnswerBank: Law . Certainly the police manipulation to get a caution recorded seems well known and documented here. Perhaps you have a case simply because you relied on the police evedence that your friend had not given her permission. On the other hand, perhaps it could be argued that it doesn't honestly sound like you asked.
My own feeling is that you should contact the society now, but you should wait until the legal process is finished, and first ask anonymously, or get someone else to ask, on your behalf.
And don't forget, the regulator reads this forum, so when they know who you are, these posts will be identifyable, so it would be a good idea to find another username and re-register.
I'm afraid that in this profession there will be many times you have to break the law to do the right thing, but certainly in your case there seemed no good reason to do so. We live and learn.
The legal process is over. I had a look at the link you suggested, in summary it is just the same as you said, you can not appeal a caution because you have admitted to the offence irrespective of if you were coerced....another solicitor says taking the caution is "a trap for the unwary".......
With regards to "it could be argued that it doesn't honestly sound like you asked", you are right, I did not have to ask, she asked me to come and pick her up......
Just reading a photocopy of the student declaration (pink forms), i signed for the RPSGB's application for pre reg scheme, it says that "at this stage..........the society does not make any assessment of a student's fitness to practice with regards to their good character and/or health". However upon registration they do and after looking at the society website, assessment of good character does include convictions and cautions, but if disclosed at that time, they ask for evidence from me and the police to assess the relation of the offence to pharmacy, how bad it is....etc....
I would say the best thing to do would be to contact the PDA as soon as possible - i.e. tomorrow. They have very kindly presented at the BPSA Conference's which I have attended in the past - and their advice to students who have found themselves in sticky situations such as this was not to go via the ostrich route and wait till until the end of prereg when problems are flagged up in the registration checks but to take immediate action as this will save a lot of hassle and heartache later on - if you are open and honest from the start it is a better reflection on your character. They have had experience in dealing with registration appeals and with the new student fitness to practice they are taking on more student cases so they may be able to help you.
the society refuse to give advice on this sort of stuff until you are about to register
at the beginning of our pre reg, they told us about a million times to make sure we declare anything we need to on the registration forms. This sort of offence certainly isnt anything like a criminal conviction that could bring your character into disrepute, but you will need to declare it
I dnt know much about cautions n the society but what i do know is cautions r an admission of guilt but r not a conviction as you didn't go to court. my friend was a security guard..he had a fight with someone, the police were called n he got a caution for assault. the security guard society refused to renew his license cos this is deemed a serious crime, so they have different levels of seriousness. To get his license back he had to either wait 5 years for his caution to be spent or had to get references/mitigation from people of goodstanding in the community. So you need to find out what ur caution is exactly for cos taking something without permission is theft? which would mean it may be a serious offence especially as a pharmacist? Definately contact the PDA who will be able to properly advise you but one thing i learnt from my friend's situation is that cautions r serious business but some police may make you think it an easy way out. good luck...
