wanting info on starting Subutex after using Heroin

[pharmacrat]

The majority of pharmacists are employees or locums. They get paid NOTHING for supervising consumption. The large financial concerns that own the pharmacies get the money.

I am not saying the pharmacists get the money themselves, but that the chains would refuse to accept addicts without such payment and they would be forced into receiving their medicine at the prescribing clinic like the US system (where methadone tablets for terminal cancer pain etc are supplied as per usual for CDs at a community pharmacy but their equivalent of "blue script" patients go to a specially licensed clinic and swallow it or take it away from there.

Whether tablets, liquid or ampoules are supplied has nothing to do with the pharmacist. It is decided by the clinic. Also the pharmacist does not decide whether methadone is to be supervised or not. The prescriber does this and it is to prevent methadone being sold and to reduce the risk of overdose.

I understand this is the decision of doctors and clinics, under pressure from central Govt, NTA, Orange Book guidelines etc. I am just stating it is part of the "war" against addicts rather than drugs themselves. I know pharmacists can't decide what gets prescribed or supervised.

Only with those who demand to be served immediately when you are in the middle of a shipping order, are threatening, physically or verbally abusive (happens more than you probably think), who shoplift, are clearly intoxicated, who smell or who try on one of the scams we have all heard hundreds of times. There are many addicts that I get on O.K. with and chat and joke with.

These drugs are all "pharmacy only" medicines but there have been calls for them to be made prescription only. In the USA you cannot even buy co-codamol for instance as this category does not exist over there. If pharmacists did not make every effort to prevent their recreational use they would have been taken off the market years ago.

Intoxicated? You're surprised when a Class A user turns up intoxicated? If they smell, maybe they're homeless and couldn't even rustle up the money for a night shelter with showers. Scams? You mean altering scripts, "i've broken my meth", getting the script early,"cheeking" and spitting out subutex etc?Sure they do this, but it's out of desperation more than malice.
I know about pharmacy only medicines being at the discretion of the pharmacist. In the USA, you cannot buy co-codamol legally but there is much more diversion, theft (often with guns!) and "pill mills" who offer any CD for the right fee- except dipipanone and diamorphine which are not medically permitted there. Many English addicts have never seen a pharmaceutical controlled drug other than methadone; in the USA oxycodone, morphine, alprazolam, lorazepam, methylphenidate, dexamfetamine and even fentanyl are quite easily obtainable via street dealers and many non-addicts simply use these at weekends instead of smoking weed or using "club" drugs such as E.

As I said, if nearly all chemists will only give cyclizine out on script, it might as well be a POM. That's the whole point of the POM and P distinction... I have never suggested chemists must ALWAYS sell a medicine (eg requesting Hydrocortisone for use on face, medised for little babies etc there is a reason to say no) but if they NEVER will it basically has the same effect as POM as supermarkets etc. are not allowed to sell Cyclizine.

Better not to sedate babies at all.

The tragedy of addiction is that the body over-rules the mind and the addict no longer has any say in what they do but few of you can see this.

This is not always true. The body can press but the mind is always in charge except for in case of authentic mental illness. It is not necessarily a bad thing to be addicted- it gives some people the security and stability they crave in troubled times, and opiates at least are not toxic. Stimulant addiction can be a different matter with the effects of long-term stimulant use on dopamine and mental health. If you're not stealing, selling your body, getting Hep C and so on and you feel better with opiates than without them, why stop? This is just giving victory to the Government and their prohibition approach. I have just started reading "Confessions of an English Opium Eater"- the modern sequel could be "Confessions of an English Rosemont Juice Supervised Consumer" hah

[bleepholder]

and opiates at least are not toxic.

??? surely every drug has the potential to be toxic...i don't think any drug is 100% safe...every drug comes with all its warnings and big long list of problenms it may cause..even paracetamol!

[jayde]

well I do not smell, shoplift, am never verbally abusive (I'm too quiet) and do not try to scam anyone, when I asked for help with my terrible sleep patterns I am continually refused because I took drugs,I have 4 a levels and 6 gcse's all over c grade and know when I'm being generalised I know there are a lot of addicts who try to get sleepers so they can take 20 at once or sell them but, im sorry, you can generally tell who those people are and you can tell by the way I behave/dress/speak that i am not one of those people. Yet I was still read the riot act wen I went into the pharmacy, don't wander around the shop....come on, everybody knows there are shoplifters in all walks of life, and we are less likely to do that because we would be barred from the pharmacy. And to the post that says if you use while taking subutex you will have wd symptoms, heroin can be abused on subutex but not really on suboxone as the opiods wont work. Although it would be stupid to do such a thing as the point in taking the subutex is invalidated. I get on well with the pharmacy employees but almost started off on the wrong foot when I was immediately considered a shoplifting suspect

[johnep]

Unfortunately, you are the sheep among the goats.
johnep

[crit care]

and you can tell by the way I behave/dress/speak that i am not one of those people.

just because if one dresses smart and speaks well, doesn't mean that they won't shoplift....we are in a society where we are quick to pass judgement on others..unfortunately its your contempories who do the drugs and shoplifters who bring the side down. i know this isn't the right thing to do, and put everyone into groups. I agree that if you are an ex drug addict then it doesn't mean you're the same as the other drug addict who came into the shop 10minutes earlier smelling and shoplifting, but thats what society does. it makes us put people into groups so we treat them all the same regardless of how you dress or smell!

[johnep]

I wonder if the poster is on income support, job seekers allowance, disability allowance, housing benefit etc etc. All due to the addiction preventing him/her getting a job.
johnep

[jayde]

I wonder if the poster is on income support, job seekers allowance, disability allowance, housing benefit etc etc. All due to the addiction preventing him/her getting a job.
johnep

I was on both income support for a time and then worked as an admin assistant during taking heroin, I came here for help not smart ass replies. My posts are not being read correctly, I said people from all walks of life steal etc wich was the reason I didnt like the fact that only people who came in for methadone had to sign a form saying such things as they wouldnt enter the chemist more than two at a time, wouldnt loiter around the shelves and the rest. Admittedly yeah my last post over a year ago did sound a bit snotty nosed but I didnt mean to, I know loads of lovely people who are homeless and still using and I have let complete a**holes stay at my house (2 users and 1 on subutex-who had no need to steal, everything was paid for my b'friend even bought them damned gear and food) and had plenty go missing, and its happened a lot. Fair enough, if my boyfriend hadnt provided the drugs maybe I would have stolen but I have also been in a position were he hasnt been around and ive just laid about and rattled. Then again if I had never met him it's doubtful I would have touched smack, I only did it because he kept disappearing for days on end, I was young and stupid and have paid the price very very dearly.I didnt know he was a user when I met him only found out after I was completely in love with the guy. And my addiction to heroin didnt mess my job up, my addiction to methadone did, having to be at the chemist an hour before it closed, having to attend appointments and half the time my key worker wouldnt even be there . I went to detox and done an 80ml meth detox, halved every time I took it, far too fast but I rode it out. Its something I will never forget and wouldnt recommend such a fast detox, I could have chosen to reduce 5ml per day but I had to get back to my kids.....sheep among goats....dont think so!

[jayde]

just because if one dresses smart and speaks well, doesn't mean that they won't shoplift....we are in a society where we are quick to pass judgement on others..unfortunately its your contempories who do the drugs and shoplifters who bring the side down. i know this isn't the right thing to do, and put everyone into groups. I agree that if you are an ex drug addict then it doesn't mean you're the same as the other drug addict who came into the shop 10minutes earlier smelling and shoplifting, but thats what society does. it makes us put people into groups so we treat them all the same regardless of how you dress or smell!

I was replying to e-loco. I know there are lots of people out there who dress great, dont 'smell' blah blah who shoplift, that was my piont! I know putting people into groups is what society does and unfortunately it's pretty wrong, and i only got treated like that for a few days until they got to know me. The last guy I heard shouting in a pharmacy actually had good reason, which is something I wouldn't normally say, but when a person goes in for clean syringes and the pharmacist makes a scene of it, I dont blame the guy. Sorry, but I wont be treated like a criminal for making a mistake thats had no effect on anyone but me and my family! And I wont be spoken down to! You know, while i was a full blown junkie, I went a few months when I stank, dressed like crap and looked the part (if we are talking about judging people on how they look) but I was still the same person I am now, polite, not a thief, helpful and generally a nice person, Ive had to be told that over and over because I had such low self esteem through being looked down on. Christ, you would think a junkie was a paedophile or something the way we have been looked at, you never know if the lovely guy in the nice suit with the good job is a rapist or not but soon as its known you had a problem with heroin you have to work so hard to gain any kind of respect of anybody!

[johnep]

'no effect on anyone but me and my family!'
The rest of us just pay the cost of welfare and social bills.
If we cut off all benefits to addicts. (In USA welfare recipients have to take drug tests), then would help cut the deficit.
johnep

[LeftArm]

I know there are a lot of addicts who try to get sleepers so they can take 20 at once or sell them but, im sorry, you can generally tell who those people are and you can tell by the way I behave/dress/speak that i am not one of those people.

When you meet someone for the first time your first judgement is made on appearance as you have no other information to use. Unfortunately when you are an addict it is your addiction that gives the first impression (rightly or wrongly). In some ways this is the same as disabled people being judged for being in a wheelchair or even racism.
Even in your own sentence above you make a generalisation based on appearance. Only with experience and getting to know someone will that initial opinion be changed and you say that you get on well with the pharmacy staff now.
My daughter went out and got her tomgue pierced at 16 had several studs in each ear then at 18 went and got tattoos up her arms. I told her she would have difficulty getting a job. She tells me that people shouldn't judge others only on appearance..... but they do. I live in fear that your story will be her story in a few years time.