NVQ Questions discussed on this forum. Plagiarism?

[Tony Schofield]

I have long championed the empowering of support staff and skilling them up in order that they may support a pharmacist, ultimately relieving a pharmacist of significant burden in order that they then perform more clinical services. I am a fan of technician registration and improving the status of technicians.

Time and again I have had cause to worry about the quality of distance learning qualifications. There is no requirement for a supervisor to state that the condidate understands how everything fits together or understands the big picture. The candidate purely and simply acrues the modules and is accepted. They may then be registered.

I have argued with pharmacists (particularly locums) here and elsewhere about their acceptance of the role of, say an ACT employed by, say, me and the confidence they have in the qualifications of such an individual. Personally all my staff are now enrolled on a day release course at a local technical college. It is more expensive but they are of much higher quality than those who enrol via Buttercups or NPA, have more confidence and are better at their job.

I am becoming increasingly more concerened about NVQ students posting questions here for more than support. I have no problem with discussing say, ethical dilemnas on line and then forming an opinion that informs an answer to a posed question. However, increasingly we get "would be techs" blatantly asking for answers to questions, citing being behind or falling out with assessors. Just as worrying, we get people actually supplying the answers.

I am horrified at the implications of this. Frequently an answer could be obtained just using a search engine but detailed replies are sought, and obtained, ready for cutting and pasting.

Personally I believe that all e-mail addresses of those involved should be forwarded to the awarding institution in order that they may investigate candidates for plagiarism. This is an insidious development that undermines faith in the qualifications offered by distance learning providers.

It also contributes to a lack of respect for technicians that undermines the confidence of RP pharmacists.

What does anyone else think?

[johnep]

You are, of course, correct. Certainly we had to use our own devices to find out information.
One of the main problems seems to be the lack of support from tutors, (also often mentioned by pre regs).
I, myself was asked by a student if I could write her essay for her, I refused.
Sometimes the students are under such pressure to succeed that they will do almost anything to get the answer which stands between them and a pay rise. You could say the same of the 'tick box' mentality so prevalent.
Where ever I can, I try to point the student in the direction, but have lapsed on occasion.
johnep

[gigeordie]

I agree with you both. I have on occassion tried to encourage students to find the information themselves with gentle prodding but also have lapsed when it is clear they are just not getting it (or are they just wanting to be spoon fed? It
can be hard to tell).

Whilst I have nothing to loose or gain by assisting I do wonder what motivates Student Techs who have spent time and effort researching and writing assignments, to offer their own hard work almost word for word.

I do know of a past incidence whereby a student thinking he was being helpful, allowed his fellow pupil to have a copy of an assignment. The fellow student copied this word for word and they both ended up in a lot of trouble.

[Tony Schofield]

John I am not having a go at you. What I am concerned about is the blatant swapping of answers that happens. As GIGEORDIE says, people can get into a lot of trouble when they do get found out.

However, I am mainly concerned at the devaluation of the qualification technicians are attempting to achieve, the reduction in trust that will be afforded and the impact on pharmacists whose confidence to delegate to these frauds will be eroded. This will have consequences for the performance of enhanced services. I can't idly stand by and not comment.

[dizzyb23]

I have to admit to "helping" out myself. But I think you have a point here. I have recently worked with a qualified tech who passed her stuff last year and she didn't know the basics. I just assumed they train them differently these days but now you've said all the above, i'm beginning to wonder......
I always believed training for an NVQ was supposed to be a hands on AND a knowledge based course with tons of support from a tutor, an internal assessor and an external assessor. Is this no longer the case???

[johnep]

My daughter was studying for a master's degree. several Chinese students on the course and they felt entitled to demand she gave them her work to copy. she didn't.
johnep

[Tony Schofield]

I always believed training for an NVQ was supposed to be a hands on AND a knowledge based course with tons of support from a tutor, an internal assessor and an external assessor. Is this no longer the case???

In principal yes. However in the stampede to register technicians, pharmacist mentors are created regardless of their abilities and/or willingness to educate and support. Also forums like this have become areas where students blatantly swap work for submission as their own.

Just have a look at some of the questions technicians are asking each other on these threads.

I have no problem with helping people out. I have no problem with discussion on line of difficult scenarios. However, there are many examples of technicians doing NVQ3 asking for and receiving completed answers. I am horrified.

[dizzyb23]

In principal yes. However in the stampede to register technicians, pharmacist mentors are created regardless of their abilities and/or willingness to educate and support. Also forums like this have become areas where students blatantly swap work for submission as their own.

Just have a look at some of the questions technicians are asking each other on these threads.

I have no problem with helping people out. I have no problem with discussion on line of difficult scenarios. However, there are many examples of technicians doing NVQ3 asking for and receiving completed answers. I am horrified.

MMMM!!!! I see what you mean....I must be honest here, I hadn't even noticed this!!! Have Pharmacists been signing off students work just to get them through the course because they haven't got the time any more or they simply can't be bothered??? What I can't understand is how the external assessors aren't noticing all this or are they just as swamped??

Worrying scenario......a dumbing down of the Tech grade has already begun I guess. Now i'm sad.....

[hibernia]

In principal yes. However in the stampede to register technicians, pharmacist mentors are created regardless of their abilities and/or willingness to educate and support.

I think you have put your finger on the problem and in fairness we can't put all the blame on the trainees. Many of them are clearly hardworking, trying to better themselves while working full-time and raising a family and it isn't easy. it is understandable if they are tempted to take a short-cut if they aren't getting the support they need and deserve, especially if they see others taking the easy way out.
That doesn't make it acceptable but it is for their tutor and assessors to detect what is going on and explain this to them, rather than turning a blind eye or colluding with them.

[sparkybw]

I think that the OP is just starting a snide attack on Pharm Techs to make him feel more superior.

He needs to realise that the majority of pharm techs come from a background of little or no science knowledge. They haven't done A levels in chemistry, which is the source of many questions, and so need help. They haven't been spoon fed the information through school and university. The majority of them are independent learners and have no students other than those on this forum who they can talk to about the questions and they have no face to face contact with a lecturer to explain things that are difficult to understand on first approach.

Where do you suggeest they get help from if their pharmacist is too busy to help them?

I do agree that giving specific information does no favours to the person asking but I can't see why pointing someone in the right direction is wrong. Under the circumstances it would be cruel to refuse help.

In any case having done a quick review of the forum it would seem that the majority of questions come from the same people, so it seems rather dispicable to say that ALL pharm techs are dumb useless creatures. Perhaps seeing as TS is so fond of evidence he can provide the research that shows that his theory is correct and that he isn't just conjuring up figures to suit his opinion.

As for reporting them for plagiarism, that is truly scraping the barrel.