Why are drinks like Fortisip and Ensure still ZD from the wholesaler?

[thechemist420!]

Why are wholesalers still classing the nutritional products from the likes of Abbott, Nutricia and Nestle as Zd products when they were removed from the ACBS list about 4 years ago? I am still being clawed back from the PPD and so am loosing money on every prescription while the wholesaler is pocketing the full 12.5% margin. Is there any PI available for Fortisip and who from?

[Defblade]

Is there any PI available for Fortisip and who from?

Waymade, Colorama

[bobbin]

Why are wholesalers still classing the nutritional products from the likes of Abbott, Nutricia and Nestle as Zd products when they were removed from the ACBS list about 4 years ago? I am still being clawed back from the PPD and so am loosing money on every prescription while the wholesaler is pocketing the full 12.5% margin. Is there any PI available for Fortisip and who from?

The reason that wholesalers don't discount nutritionals is that they are expensive to handle....

1. Picking cannot be automated.
2. Stock is often damaged and has to be disposed of.
3. Stock is heavy and bulky.
4. Stock is short dated.

I don't blame wholesalers for not discounting these products. I do however blame the NHS for applying the discount deduction scale to these items, which is clearly unfair.

PIs are sometimes available but the pack size is often incorrect (eg. 200ml Ensure instead of 220ml), the stock is particularly short-dated and patient acceptance may be reduced. In addition, the formulation of certain PI sip feeds is slightly different to the UK packs.

Nutrionals are not the major issue when it comes to dispensing at a loss. Branded medicines are now the major problem. Discount on most branded medicines is now only about 7% but the clawback goes up to 11.5%. See the table at the bottom...

DDA - Dispensing Doctors' Association

Although the table was produced by a dispensing doctor, it applies equally to pharmacy. Phoenix's discounts are normally the best (for PSUK and Numark members only).

What we need is an urgent review of the clawback scale, which now bears no resemblance to discounts actually received. It is an utterly ridiculous situation. Now that Cat M prices and fees are being reduced yet again the situation is even worse. The clawbacks always get worse since we dispense more items than ever before..... but since total profit is fixed we are forced to work with lower margins per item.

[bobbin]

Waymade, Colorama

I thought Colorama went into administration? Perhaps I imagined it, since we don't use them anyway.

[thechemist420!]

Thanks for this . Colorama did go bust but were bought out by B&S Gowrie and resurected again under a new company.
I still dont buy the fact that wholesalers can class nutritional drinks as ZD lines. Even though they may be bulky we usually order in full cases and the expiry date is always good. With the popular lines like Fortisip they should be turning their stock around very quickly .

With regards to the branded discount changing downwards every time the manufacturer reduces the number of wholesalers is ridiculous. On all the major companies now we are loosing money through clawback but i am sure that the wholesalersarenowmaking more money from us.

Where they were happy to workon 1 - 1.5% margin on branded ethicals i have been informed that they are now using the changes the manufacturers are making to reduce the level of discount they give to the pharmacist and pocket more for themsleves.

The PSNC dont seem to be doig a lot either with regards to changing the discount deduction scale.

[bobbin]

Thanks for this . Colorama did go bust but were bought out by B&S Gowrie and resurected again under a new company.
I still dont buy the fact that wholesalers can class nutritional drinks as ZD lines. Even though they may be bulky we usually order in full cases and the expiry date is always good. With the popular lines like Fortisip they should be turning their stock around very quickly .

With regards to the branded discount changing downwards every time the manufacturer reduces the number of wholesalers is ridiculous. On all the major companies now we are loosing money through clawback but i am sure that the wholesalers are now making more money from us.

Where they were happy to workon 1 - 1.5% margin on branded ethicals i have been informed that they are now using the changes the manufacturers are making to reduce the level of discount they give to the pharmacist and pocket more for themsleves.

The PSNC don't seem to be doing a lot either with regards to changing the discount deduction scale.

I don't doubt for a moment that the major wholesalers are now making a higher % margin on the major manufacturers products. I believe that some of these manufacturers are still giving them 12.5% or near enough.... and we get 7%. This is what you get when competition and choice are substantially reduced. Now that the big boys have a £300 low spend surcharge you can't shop around either.

Abbott and Nutricia have just restricted their distribution to the largest full-line wholesalers only so you won't be able to buy their products from short-line wholesalers anymore unless they have PIs in stock. Some short-line wholesalers used to give discounts on UK packs, not large discounts but some discount.

Why is everything in pharmacy better in Scotland (it seems)? They have all sorts of stuff we don't, including a more sensible discount deduction scale.

[thechemist420!]

Has any one seen this. Just come across it on google

Eli Lilly Sues Two Celesio Units in U.K. Over Generic Zyprexa Drug Sales
By Erik Larson - Sep 29, 2010 2:56 PM GMT+0100
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Business ExchangeBuzz up!DiggPrint Email .Eli Lilly & Co., the world’s biggest maker of psychiatric drugs, sued two U.K. units of drug distributer Celesio AG for allegedly infringing its patent for the schizophrenia drug Zyprexa two years ago.

Celesio’s Lloyds Pharmacy and Aah Pharmaceuticals businesses sold about 800,000 tablets of generic Zyprexa before agreeing in 2008 to halt sales, Eli Lilly said in a complaint filed in the High Court in London on Aug. 18 and made public last week.

Eli Lilly, based in Indianapolis, took legal action two years ago against “a number of companies” to stop sales of the generic known as olanzapine, according to an e-mailed statement yesterday from Edward Sagebiel, an Eli Lilly spokesman. The sales ended after Eli Lilly’s patent expiration won an extension until Sept. 26, 2011, according to the complaint.

The lawsuit “has been undertaken by Lilly to obtain its damages as a result of the sale of those products” in 2008, Sagebiel said.

Lloyds Pharmacy agreed to halt the sales “and hold the remainder of the stock in quarantine,” Sarah Stokes, a spokeswoman for Lloyds Pharmacy, said in an e-mail. The lawsuit relates to a single batch of olanzapine that Lloyds Pharmacy purchased and the company is no longer selling it, she said.

Dean Enon, a spokesman for Coventry, England-based Aah Pharmaceuticals, referred calls to Stokes.

The case is: Eli Lilly v. AAH Pharmaceuticals, Lloyds Pharmacy, High Court of London, Chancery Division, No. HC10C02699.

To contact the reporter on this story: Erik Larson in London at elarson4@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Anthony Aarons at aaarons@bloomberg.net.
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Interesting!