Failing Pre-reg year

[Pharmanaut]

[quote=the old merlin;7893]Two points PoP-RS

Traditionally, we were supposed not to be loud and jolly; a textbook just about still in use in my student days included something to the effect that laughter was not appropriate in a pharmacy. It was, though, common in the one where I did my pre-reg!
And sometimes you have to "pull your punches"; find a way of telling a patient that they're a fool without actually using the word. (For example).
And, although a middle-class southerner, I did my pre-reg in the north, in Coronation Street country, where I was regarded as a bit of a curiosity.
QUOTE]

Loud and jolly should not be a problem as long as the person is tactful and empathic.

[the old merlin]

Originally Posted by Pharmanaut

Loud and jolly should not be a problem as long as the person is tactful and empathic.

Couldn't agree more.

[Chosen1]

Just thought I'd ask as to how your daughter is progressing. Have things starting to turn for the better? And is she expecting a good week 26 review?

[parent of pre-reg student]

The review is this week so will let you know! Things are not very good really - she does not want to do the job any more, but is still hoping to pass and at least have the choice open to her. This is such a shame, as all her teachers know her to be incredibly hard working, positive, friendly and a great listener - she would have made a good pharmacist with some praise and a little understanding. She may do a PGCE Science if she fails the year. Still, her experience is postively blissful when compared to the recent post in this forum! Undergrads should be told about the difficult nature of the calcs test at the end of the pre-reg year - following the 4 yr slog that is the MPharm - many wouldn't do the course if they knew they could not even register for a job without it. Tutors should be trained, monitored, and made aware of how little the degree actually relates to the job - my daughter is not at all stupid, great grades at GCSE and A level and a 2.1, but has been made to feel so because she does not know as much as someone with many years' practice. Pre-reg students should be visited in their establishments by their Uni professor or some independent body to see that they are not at risk - they are very vulnerable to abuse, living in fear of failure as they do. One of the worst things to cope with is the resentment of the techs. A truly dreadful experience and introduction to a well-respected profession. Would things have been very different I wonder had she gone to a hospital or multiple? I suspect that sympathetic tutors are rare - and getting rarer because of job stresses - but they should not volunteer to supervise without the qualities every teacher needs - patience, kindness, maturity and the sense to see that confidence cannot grow where no dignity is afforded.
I'll get off my soap-box! Cheers for asking, Chosen 1.

[Lost]

in reply to 'parent of pre-reg student'

I am a pre-reg who works in hospital. I agree with some of the things you have mentioned. I feel one of the most challenging aspect of pre-reg is the resentment of the techs. I have tried many times to maintain a positive relationship with them, some are nice but some are very difficult. I feel at times that they want to get one over you or undermine you. In hospital it is necessary to work with them because they are involved in your training (dispensing, ACT, etc). I am fortunate because I work in a large hospital and most of the staff are lovely. However, to do well, I believe that you need a strong mentality and character during pre-reg. Do not be phased and you will survive.

[Chosen1]

I sincerely hope she does pass and that this whole episode merely serves to strengthen her resolve and make her a better pharmacist for it. It's best for her to be positive and concentrate on passing the registration exam.

I would only disagree on one point in your posting, and that is to do with the pharmacy degree. My belief is that it relates very well to the job and lays a good foundation for it (regardless of university attended). What it fails to do however is incorporate any meaningful practice of it within the course (i.e. community placements, etc) to allow us to experience the job we are to do. Another decisive factor is our application - or lack of - of the knowledge we gain at university. This is largely due to the exam culture that we have inherited as part of the education system. Many students end up trying to learn for an exam as opposed to applying the knowledge they have gained.

Once again, I wish her all the best, and will look out for your post as to how she has fared.

[the old merlin]

Excellent post, Chosen1. Very well put.

To the parent of the struggling student, I would ask if the students tutor has taken her to any local pharmaceutical meetings? Or otherwise arranged for her to meet with other colleagues. Even on a semi-social (professional meeting) basis that does give opportunity for other interactions. Otherwise, if she emails me using the private facility I'll try and put her in touch with someone who could give her another opinion.

And to both her and the other complainer about techs, that is one of the features of work. You don't get on with everybody, and some people in the techs position seem to resent on principle the newly qualified professional, who will one day be in a position, as they see it, to "command" them.
The opinion of experienced non-commissioned officers of junior officers in the Services is well known.

[drh785]

Dealing with techs is one of the features of the work - some are friendly some are resentful!
I had it when i was a pre-reg in hospital 18yrs ago and coped! and also in both my hospital and retail careers and also managed!
In fact the two hospitals where i worked are now almost run by techs! One of them is one of the managers!
All the pharmacists do is clinically check the scripts and ward charts!
This i feel is something that the pharmacists have allowed to happen and have allowed the role of the technician to expand without expanding their own roles themselves!
Hospital pharmacists are partly to blame and it is their own fault!
'Lost' and 'Parents of Pre Reg Student' please PM me if you want to discuss furthur and i would be more than happy to reply.

[pharout]

Originally Posted by Pharmanaut

There are two sides to every story but a tutors job is to mentor the pre-reg to encourage and nuture them on the first stages of professional life. Some checks and balances need to be put into operation fairly soon. What we want at the end of the process is a competent pharmacist - not a bag of nerves. How about pre-reg requesting an off-site talk with tutor to get things back on track? Is there a senior tutor who looks after the tutors in that area?

Calculations should come with practice. Some people can do them in their head, some like to do them on paper, starting from first principles. Most of us are in between. Its the right answer that matters when its someones life.

How about pharmaceutical calculations and the companion workbook by Rees, Smith and Smith. Published by the pharmaceutical press.
If you drop me a private email you can lend my copies, as long as you do the workbook stuff on scrap paper!

Although I have absolutely no experience with training in the UK, I have a comment based on the response by Pharmanaut. I think this response exemplifies the kind of attitude and commitment that is evident of a good teacher. I am a "preceptor" at about 6 different universities here in the U.S. with regard to "experiential training". This is mainly 4th year PharmD students and here in the U.S., residents, which are basically those undertaking "post-doc" training. I absolutely agree with the approach that Pharmanaut suggests and it is frankly nice to see. I always tell students "remember where you came from" when it is time to train someone else and devote the time necessary. This is the greatest service I feel that I give back to the profession. I always consider the student's experience as a direct reflection on my site and ability to teach. I always encourage honest, bi-directional feedback and feel that I would be doing a disservice to remain silent about apparent "issues". With that being said, I also make it a point to note great effort on the part of the student, as I think this is important too. Bottom line: Kudos to pharmanaut as I think we need more people like this in the profession.

[johnep]

Pharout, we could certainly do with a few more like you!
johnep