I need help on what to do about my pre-reg

[pharout]

Originally Posted by ukpharmgrad

I hate my pre-reg placement. I have hated it from day one. Here is some of the things that have been happening.

On the first day, the guy acted like I was so stupid. He gave me the job knowing that I had never worked in a pharmacy before. Also I left during my fourth year at uni and came back a year and a half years later. So many things were forgotten. He knew this too. He kept piling work on top of me. This was just the first day. Granted it was very busy (just my luck) but he could have been more understanding instead of tutting and rolling his eyes. Whenever I do anything wrong he laughs at me and has encouraged the others who work in the shop to do so too.

When he was ill he kept coughing and sneezing without closing his mouth. He has dandruff and is always scratching himself. Sometimes has bad-breath which stinks up the whole store. There is food that has been there for a long time. He is the dirtiest man I have ever come across. I confronted the guy on the Wednesday of my first week and told him that I didn't appreciate the way he was treating me. He said that i don't deserve any respect and 'you must earn it'. Fair enough.

But after that day, I have been made fun of because of my weight (even though the last prereg guy was fat too), called a he/she, a lesbian and a thief. Whenever I use the till to serve patients, him and his wife look over my shoulder. I have made errors on the till but whenever I do, I would always call him or his wife over immediately. Whenever the till is low, I am stared at and made to feel uncomfortable. I tried to ignore this but one day, his wife was working instead and at the end of the day, the till was low. I had called her over before because of an error that I had made. We wrote it down to remind ourselves what had happened. So expecting her to tell what had happened she didn't. When I went to get my coat at the back of the store, I heard her and 2 others saying that I had taken it. The most ridiculous thing is that I am fortunate enough to have parents who have worked hard to be able to be in the position to help me out and if they were to openly accuse me of stealing, I have the means to sue.

The only reason he would call me a thief is because he is a racist. One of the girls who works there even called me a black b*tch. Also, I have to wear a lab coat even if it is hot. I didn't have a lab coat before and so had to wear his for a week. His was so dirty and smelly it was unbelievable. It was so embarrassing and ofcourse he didn't admit that it was his coat. Now apparently I stink and ofcourse he uses it as an excuse to sometimes not bathe or brush his teeth because I get the blame.

They don't always say these things to me but they say it loud enough for me to hear. Or if I walk over to a group of people talking, they would stop. If I walked away, they would then start laughing. If I complain, I am told lies and that I am imagining it and told to leave if I don't like it.

I also suffer from back pain whenever I am stressed and need to sit down often. Whenever I sit down he starts shouting at me and asks me why I am sitting down. Then when I say my back hurts, he laughs at me.

He disrespects me in front of the customers, rolls his eyes at them when I make errors and so they laugh at me. He b*tches to them about me (I have asked some of them and they confirmed this)

As a result of all this bullying, I have taken many days off and I have been late 4 times. My work has suffered which ofcourse re-inforces the fact that I am stupid to him. I am too scared to ask him for help or even go over to the customers to talk to them. I have lost all confidence in myself. I thought I was doing well. Sometimes he will tell me that I have learnt more than most pre-reg people have done by this time but then if anyone is present he patronises me and says that I wouldn't get any competences signed off at all.

I feel like there is no one to turn to. I have spoken to him about his conduct and I have been threatend with the sack. I am scared to lose my job but yet I am terrified to go to work. Also, he has had 10 years experience in pharmacy and I feel his side would always be taken. He is also a funny guy and everyone likes him and so how can I prove what type of a person he is and none of the staff would stick up for me. I spoke to someone from the society and I was crying to them on the phone. I told her to have a word with him and she did. But she then phoned me back and sounded like she believed everything he had said. He told her that I was disrespectful (not true) and that I was always late (which is true but he doesn't tell her why) and that I didn't have many compentence sheets (he has never looked at my competence sheets at all). He is such a good liar. He is able to mix the truth with lies.

I cry every single day I get home and on the weekends and I believe I may be clinically depressed. I don't know what to do. Am I just being sensitive? I am going to the doctor on monday to see what is happening with my back and head.

If what you say is the truth (and I assume it is), this sort of belittling treatment is absurd. I may be an outsider looking in, but doing this does absolutely nothing for the profession or the development of your knowledge. You have nothing to learn from someone like this anyway. I'm not sure if it would be easy to obtain another site to gain your experience, but I think this would be the way to go. Why would anyone put up with this? Once you are registered, then you will be on an equal playing field and I would see it through that he never teaches another student again (how many others has he done this to?). I am also surprised by all of the comments as to why students are frightful of asking questions. I always encourage it because if a student leaves my site with no knowledge, I look at it as a direct reflection on my ability to precept. You have plenty of people on this site with at least 10 years of experience that I'm sure will answer your questions, don't be afraid to ask. I also don't think the profession would take the side of this man because he is a pharmacist and a "good ol' boy". There are plenty here that seem to disagree. Unfortunately in every profession, there are always exceptions to the standard that have somehow slipped through the cracks. He is one of them. Just keep your head high and and your self-esteem in tact and you will somehow find a way to circumvent all of this. You will definitely learn how NOT to treat a student, if this is all that you learn from him.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by parent of pre-reg student

Don't forget - students are humans

It's not often I disagree with you - but my sons are students - and I suspect that they are an entirely different species.

Jeff

[Jeff]

For those who find their pre-reg year bad

Morale slumps under daunting rise in workload - Chemist + Druggist

and

'Don't choose this career' says profession - Chemist + Druggist

There may be an argument for getting out while you are young enough to do so.

Jeff

[N.T]

Originally Posted by Jeff

There may be an argument for getting out while you are young enough to do so.

Jeff

I would advise finishing pre-reg if you have already started. After that...well then leave!

[rafhelp]

what can i say, ive heard people say 'if you cant trust a pharmacist who can you trust', but it is simply not true. There may be decent pharmacists out there but quite a few are simply power tripping, especially independant pharmacists who own their own pharmacies, they treat you like dirt because they work for themselves and therefore you cant report them to seniors if they treat you badly. Some have the view 'its my pharmacy i can do what i want' even if this means breaking the law, insulting/hurting someone feelings.

Ive been in situations where the boss will get all aggresive/stressed out with you over little things such as not sticking bag-labels on straight, but then a few minutes later they will laughing and joking on the phone with someone as though nothing had happened leaving me confused as to why they freaked out on me.

I think issues like this are common in pharmacies especially independents as the managers/pharmacist are in positions of control and quite often this can be abused. Most staff especially pre-regs then put up with the grief/abuse they get for whatever reason. I mean its hard finding pre-reg places as it is, so when you find one you dont want to leave it. Tutors know this and they may take advantage of this, when you start pre-reg not only are you the 'new guy' but you have a lot of expectations and pressures from tutors and staff. Now if you dont get along with your tutor, or if you upset your tutor (maybe you didnt say Hi to then one morning or you dont make good tea for them) you dont want to say anything because then they might not sign you off. If a tutor lets their personal feelings towards you affect their decision as to not sign you off then isnt this wrong, unprofessional and incompetent. But at the end of the day what can be one, it would be your word against the pharmacists (now guess who they would believe), I mean you can have all the evidence log sheets you need, but your tutor can still just turn around and say, 'im not signing you off' (which has happened to me) but what can you do.

In quite lot of cases when doing your pre-reg you will be thinking which is the right way to do such a thing, but if you have worked in different places you will know there can be more than one 'right method' of doing something (for example filing prescriptions). Now if you dont do it the way they do it, does it make you incompetent? If you still achieve the deserved outcome does it matter how it was done. Fine in some cases following exact company procedures is essential but not for everything.

[rafhelp]

Originally Posted by N.T

I would advise finishing pre-reg if you have already started. After that...well then leave!

What if after putting up with all that you still dont get signed off, will you have regrets for not leaving it.

I once did a six months placement in hospital. After the second week their i was really upset and hated it, aswell as some of the staff. I tried to leave but the university pre-reg tutor strongly advised against it and talked/urged me into going back and carrying on. Telling me stories of where he had been in the same situation but he persevered and it worked out for the best.

So very reluctantly i went back and carried on. put in 100% every day. put up with those annoying staff members. It was terrible. I was called all sorts of things from muggings, to lowest of the low.

I mean to be called 'the lowest of the low' by a qualified pharmacist really delivers a knock out blow. I mean are they not 'intellectual' or do they not live in the real world. Have they never come across or heard about murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc.. These people are the 'lowest of the low' , so for me as a pre-reg to be put in the same category as them really hurt at that time. On top of that i have been accused of 'thinking that i know than/and am better than technicians). But to be honest if after 4 years at uni i dont know more than most technicians then the course cant have been that good at all. Also you are who you associate with, so if you spend most of the day with pharmacists who think they gods gift to mankind, who regulary put you down, pull rank on you then it will rub off on you. (an example of the bullied becomes the bully) . That pre-reg would then go and do the same to other members of staff. Also apparently I cant communicate effectively in english. What a joke what kind of english are pharmacists required to speak!?? I mean when you talk to a patient, you will only be asking basic questions and using normal layman's english. I mean after spending 23-24 years in fulltime education, completing a masters degree, a dissertation and giving numerous presentations at university you are still deemed as not being able to communicate effectively in english then I dont agree.

Oh and on top of that I wasnt signed off. Then on the last day of leaving I was given a sort of leaving do, where all the staff gathered to say farewell etc... What a joke, they were all there smiling wishing me well knowing full well I had not been signed off and well all I could do was smile back I guess. Dont get me wrong I got along with a few staff members, had they not been there my life there would have been really really bad. Im still gratefull for their help and support.

If a tutor gives you a rough time, and then tells you a kind of story/excuse about how bad/strict their tutor was on them. Then sorry but that is not a good enough excuse to treat you badly, was it your fault their tutor was bad/strict with them.

My advice is if you work anywhere and you dont like it, give it atleast a month or so and if you still dont like it then leave. They cant stop you, they can try and persuade you not to, but its still up to you. Either that or just carry on, put up with it, get stressed, depressed, ill and maybe or maybe not get signed off and if you dont get signed off no ones going to want to hear your 'terrible pre-reg story' because they prob would not care anyway and anyway what can they do, you've kind of wasted a year of your life, lost out on £25-35,000 in a years salary as qualified pharmacist and on top when you go apply for another pre-reg the fact that you have already failed one will go against you.

[Jeff]

Rafhelp,
Let me get this straight - you did 6 months in a hospital placement that you hated, then you did pre-reg in community and hated that.

Are you certain that you are cut out for pharmacy?

On top of that i have been accused of 'thinking that i know than/and am better than technicians). But to be honest if after 4 years at uni i dont know more than most technicians then the course cant have been that good at all.

In any environment a technician working there full time is likely to know more about the systems and how to work in that environment than a newly arrived pharmacist (registered or otherwise).

Ive been in situations where the boss will get all agrresive/stressed out with you over little things such as not sticking bag-labels on straight,

OK master of the communication discuss the importance (or otherwise) of bag labels being stuck on straight?

I mean after spending 23-24 years in fulltime education, completing a masters degree, a dissertation and giving numerous presentations at university is putting a bag label on straight beyond your technical ability, too time consuming, makes it too difficult to find bagged prescriptions or perhaps a straight label fails to give the impression of haphazardness that you wish to convey to the customers.

but then a few minutes later they will laughing and joking on the phone with someone as though nothing had happened leaving me confused as to why they freaked out on me.

Because he was trying to get through to you about something really easy peasy that affected the impression of care that his business gave to his customers that you dismiss as "little" - and then somehow it's his fault for not taking his frustration with you out on somebody else at the other end of the phone.

Now while I can sympathise with someone who finds a pre-reg tutor they can't work with - you do seem to be in danger of letting it become a habit.

Jeff

[rafhelp]

No i did 6months in community which I passed and enjoyed. Then i did 6 months in hospital which i did not pass.

Should I even bother replying? From your reply I can assume your are indeed a pharmacist.

OK, if i did a survey on how important patients thought 'straightly placed' bag labels are, I can say for certain most would not even care. The majority of patients would be more concerned that they have the right medication and the quality of 'professional' service they got, not on how neatly packaged their drugs were, or what colour tie you wore, or what size font you used to label with.

As for helping identification of packaged prescritions what difference does it make if it is not on straight, is your reading ability that bad?

In reference to the joking on the phone issue, you dont understand. Its like when theyre around you they are a complete different person, you are not worthy or good enough to talk to them in a friendly manner or to have a joke/laugh with them.

The role of the tutor is to train you up, increase your knowledge, give you confidence in yourself and your abilities and be a kind of role model especially in the way they deal with issues that arise on a dialy basis. The role of the tutor is not to 'be in control' of the pre-reg. There is no reason to tolerate abuse of any kind from your tutor no matter who they are, or what reason they use. And no 'Its for your own good' is not a good excuse, I can almost gaurantee if you take abuse from your tutor and qualify when it comes to the time when youre the tutor yourself , you will abuse your pre-reg aswell.

[parent of pre-reg student]

Hi Raf,
I am very sorry for your troubles. If you have read my posts since last September you will know that my daughter went through a terrible time on her pre-reg placement and didn't want to go anywhere for help and advice - she was so embarrassed and ashamed having done well at school and university - hence I was the one who subscribed to this forum for guidance. I was bullied at work for 7 years and put up with it because I am the breadwinner with a big mortgage and three kids, but I didn't see why she should - a young girl still free of responsibilities living back at home after 4 years away at Uni working incredibly hard for her degree. Since then I have heard from lots of other pre-reg students who are having an awful time, and I have had a range of advice, some very good, some less so, from pharmacists. She managed to transfer after an horrendous struggle - and from "failing" her pre-reg in a small independent community, she has actually now gained a three year contract as a step/rotational hospital pharmacist band 6, if she passes the exam in September, and will complete her pre-reg training in the hospital. She is no "worse" than 2 other pre-reg students (both "passing") who have been there since September, but without standardisation of competences, she had no one to judge herself against before this, and her first tutor had never tutored before. She also receives study time, £4000 per yr more in salary and praise/constructive criticism. This change has been entirely fortuitous - had she not gone there on a cross sector placement she would not be in training now at all - had the hospital staff not been appalled by her treatment and prepared to do something practical and honourable about it - had I not battled alongside her relentlessly, researching the nuances of a profession I was totally ignorant about - I was eventually able to cite precedent from studies into dyslexia in the workplace concerning health professionals. Thank God for the Internet - I forget the name of the Brit who invented it. Anyway, the gist of all this is you are generalising - the profession is like all others - with its fair share of heroes, villains, victims and fellow strugglers on life's rugged path! It's all about problem solving, with a new set of problems every day, and pharmacists, it seems to me, are particularly adept at this and quite "sharp" in the old-fashioned sense of the word. This is not always akin to patience or kindness - but yet I have met with incredible help and support - one member of this forum even posted her a drug guide; and she has now met with a wealth of good will and professionalism in her current placement. She did 4 weeks in another hospital several years back and they were so short staffed they were dementedly stressed - this, too, is not conducive to training students who are generally "slower"; less able to transfer knowledge/skills quickly. I think she would have been failed there too. But I sympathise with your anguish - I believe you will get another placement as there is money involved in training - and you will start anew, older and wiser. Could you not return to your community placement where you were happy and successful? Good luck.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by parent of pre-reg student

I was eventually able to cite precedent from studies into dyslexia in the workplace concerning health professionals.

Reference please there was someone here who asked if dyslexia precluded them from registering as a pharmacist - does it?

Glad to hear that your daughter is now happier ;-)

Jeff